Use 2mm washers for the spoke nipples inside rim?
#1
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Use 2mm washers for the spoke nipples inside rim?
Changing the spokes in the wheel, bought 265mm spokes instead of 264mm and they are too loose.
Now i have two options:
Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim
This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.
Now i have two options:
- Have spokes stick out of the spoke nipples 1-2mm into the rim which is withing spec, however i don't like this option.
- Use 2mm thick washers for the spoke nipples to space them away from the rim thus spokes will not come stick out into the rim.
Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim
This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.
#2
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Changing the spokes in the wheel, bought 265mm spokes instead of 264mm and they are too loose.
Now i have two options:
Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim
This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.
Now i have two options:
- Have spokes stick out of the spoke nipples 1-2mm into the rim which is withing spec, however i don't like this option.
- Use 2mm thick washers for the spoke nipples to space them away from the rim thus spokes will not come stick out into the rim.
Unlike this diagram my rims don't have recess for the spoke nipples, so its going to be 2mm above the inner wall of the rim
This is picture of my rim with 1mm spacer, if i add one more spacer spoke nipple will be even higher.
As far as worrying about bottoming out the threads check out what Bill Mould has to say about that.
After years of building and repairing wheels, I am in agreement with his conclusions.
#3
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Thread Starter
I recommend you forget about the washers and let the spokes protrude. With a double wall rim that presents no issues but in your case the best course would be to file or Dremel the ends flush with the nipple head.
As far as worrying about bottoming out the threads check out what Bill Mould has to say about that.
After years of building and repairing wheels, I am in agreement with his conclusions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Q29syv9ws
As far as worrying about bottoming out the threads check out what Bill Mould has to say about that.
After years of building and repairing wheels, I am in agreement with his conclusions.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i0Q29syv9ws
Seen that video before.
I also built many wheels and seen factory wheels built without spoke thread goes all the way trough the spoke nipple, never had a spoke break at the nipple in my lifetime always breaks at the hub end so i am not worried about the threads as much other than the spoke sticking out into the hub (if its single wall hub).
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I don't like the -2mm (minimum insertion scenario. Too close to popping nipple tops for me. 2mm over? Simply additional work grinding off but not an issue otherwise. I've had spokes bottom out on the nipples. Too much and I unlace and get shorter - too much work. Just a little? I've forced it on a few wheels. Brass nipples are pretty malleable. Seems to work out just fine.
Those washers - pre-bend them to fit your rim curvature or you may find them resisting your attempts at even tensions and/or many of the spokes loosening up as they bend into place. The rim strip properly covering the nipple plus washer may also be a challenge and lead to internal flats whenever they choose to happen.
Those washers - pre-bend them to fit your rim curvature or you may find them resisting your attempts at even tensions and/or many of the spokes loosening up as they bend into place. The rim strip properly covering the nipple plus washer may also be a challenge and lead to internal flats whenever they choose to happen.
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The "right" solution is spokes that are the right length, and loading tension in a way that avoids then high/low phenomenon.
That said, your approach using washers creates more problems that it solves.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
2- the taller nipple height will make it harder to protect tubes from hyperstretching at the steps each high nipple creates. It's a recipe for chronic rim side flats.
3- You'll need as much rim depth as possible to mount tires. Odds are that there simply isn't enough depth or side clearance between the tire seats, and mounting tires will be a bear (it already is on many rims).
So, back to what you don't like. Spokes that come up beyond the top of the nipple. As long is it's not enough to cause running out of thread (test a spoke and nipple off the bike), it's easily remedied with a fast pass on a narrow grinding wheel. This has been SOP for well over half a century and there were even special 8mm grinding wheels made specifically for this job.
So those are the considerations, and it's now in your hands.
That said, your approach using washers creates more problems that it solves.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
2- the taller nipple height will make it harder to protect tubes from hyperstretching at the steps each high nipple creates. It's a recipe for chronic rim side flats.
3- You'll need as much rim depth as possible to mount tires. Odds are that there simply isn't enough depth or side clearance between the tire seats, and mounting tires will be a bear (it already is on many rims).
So, back to what you don't like. Spokes that come up beyond the top of the nipple. As long is it's not enough to cause running out of thread (test a spoke and nipple off the bike), it's easily remedied with a fast pass on a narrow grinding wheel. This has been SOP for well over half a century and there were even special 8mm grinding wheels made specifically for this job.
So those are the considerations, and it's now in your hands.
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#6
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That said, your approach using washers creates more problems that it solves.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
1- nipples have hemsipherical (or conical) heads so they can comfortably sit at an angle to follow the line of the spokes (side to side, forward to back). You probably will have a very tough time finding washers strong enough not to split, and/or which won't induce high local stresses on the rim.
I've tested spoke nipples without the spacers and the cheap rim does not allow any angle for the spoke nipple other tan straight angle (90 degree) to the rim, its just a hole drilled trough center of the rim, no grooves, no roundness around.
This leads me to think that it would not make any difference if i use single 1mm washers, even bending washers would not do anything as rim surface is flat.
Last edited by PimpMan; 10-01-22 at 05:22 AM.
#7
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Thanks for response.
I've tested spoke nipples without the spacers and the cheap rim does not allow any angle for the spoke nipple other tan straight angle (90 degree) to the rim, its just a hole drilled trough center of the rim, no grooves, no roundness around.
This leads me to think that it would not make any difference if i use single 1mm washers, even bending washers would not do anything as rim surface is flat.
I've tested spoke nipples without the spacers and the cheap rim does not allow any angle for the spoke nipple other tan straight angle (90 degree) to the rim, its just a hole drilled trough center of the rim, no grooves, no roundness around.
This leads me to think that it would not make any difference if i use single 1mm washers, even bending washers would not do anything as rim surface is flat.
Besides, ANY added nipple height makes mounting tires more difficult. Not an issue on many rims, but can make the difference between difficult and near impossible on others. There are plenty of threads here on BF dealing with hard to mount tires, and sometimes the solution ends up being thinner rim strips.
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An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FB
Chain-L site
An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.
Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.