testertips

16 / 20 spoke radial front and 24 2x rear doable with 36h hub and rim? It's a track bike.

veganbikes

Just get the correct parts. That would be the best and easiest way. In some cases with certain combos you can do it but it is a lot of calculation and usually some different spoking patterns but in the end is just not worth it. If you must have low spoke wheels DT Swiss makes some nice stuff and if not just stick with 36 or 32h wheels.

JohnDThompson 

I agree with @veganbikes; just get the right parts to build the wheels properly. And be aware that hubs that aren't designed for radial spoking may fail in use.

cxwrench

Not a great idea. Do it the right way.

63rickert

Ron Boi used to build stuff like that 50 years ago. It was very slow and Ron was very good. Even with best wheel builder ever not all combinations were a success. If you were as good as Ron you would know it and wouldn't ask here.

Fifty years ago the reason to do weird wheelbuilding was parts were just not available. Anything you could find you were happy to see. Now you can get most anything. Build with real parts.

70sSanO

So you already have the 36 hole rims and 36 hole hubs?

John

Troul 

19/27 would be my guess. Getting tension right will be hard.

icemilkcoffee 

24h rim on 36h hub can be done by skipping every 3rd hole. 16h or 20h though are a lot more challenging. What hubs and rims are these?

63rickert

If you have a suitable hub, meaning one strong enough for radial, it is no big deal to build a 36 as an 18. With tall modern rims -- they are almost all tall now -- it will work. A 32 built as 16 hole 1-cross is stronger and allows a few more hubs. That's for the front. At the rear I would suggest building a few hundred wheels before you fool with this. No, it is not as simple as skipping every third hole.

A track bike? If I were chief referee I would not allow this on the track.

If you weigh next to nothing and have some sturdy rims and a very small flange hub you could try building the rear 16 hole 2 cross drive and 1 cross left. That would be a fool around with it and see what happens wheel. You would not race track with it. A forty hole hub and rim built as a 20 hole 2 cross would be far better.

Schweinhund

How does one ascertain what hub is suitable? Is there a particular term to be aware of?

cxwrench

'Approved for radial lacing' is always one to look for. Or the opposite. Check the manufacturer's site. If it matters it'll be in the specs.

KerryIrons

Very doable. But it would most likely result in a crap build. Multiple different spoke lengths and tensions all over the place. As everyone else said, get the right parts.

base2 

16 on drive side, 8 radial on the non-drive would be a 24 triplet lace pattern, would it not? Wouldn't the benefit be about equal tension DS/NDS. Likewise a 36 hole rim/hub, laced 18 DS, 9 radial NDS...So long as there isn't any angle drilled holes causing the nipple to point to the wrong flange, where's the problem?

(Actual curious 'cause there's still stuff I don't know.)

63rickert

Sixteen drive side spokes and eight left side spokes is straightforward on 32 spoke rims and hubs. I'm sure there are wheels like that out on the roads. My experience with radial left side rear on home built wheels is it always fails early. That would be early failure with a full basket of spokes. When there are only eight spokes that failure could be exciting.

Pre-built system wheels run very high spoke tension. Tension that exceeds manufacturers recommendations for any rim sold loose. Tensions you are not even likely to be able to get at home.

Can you just get a three corner spoke wrench and use 150 or 170 kgpf tension? Yes, you can. I have measured pre-built wheels from manufacturers assembled from same rims they sell loose and same spokes/hubs/nipples you can buy, and they run much higher tensions than they recommend to you. It is still real different. On steeply dished 11-speed wheels I have gone to 150kgpf on rims not recommended above 120 or 130 and seen them last a very long time. Am I recommending this to you? Absolutely not. If you want to play you are completely on your own.

Radial front is no big deal. Raleigh did radial front as OEM on the Record Ace as early as 1939. Of course they used traditional British 32 spoke front. I have run many miles on 16 and 18 spoke radial front. I can tell you that spoke life was always reasonable. Spoke life was same as anything else when built one-cross. One cross is not happening with an 18 spoke wheel. Works great with 16. I've done this in 40mph sprints and down mountains. It works. And if you go do this yourself you are completely on your own. Not recommending this to you at all. Merely observing it has happened. And that I am, or was when younger, crazy enough to attempt such stunts. And this crazy old man would not build with half the spokes on left side rear. Better ways to save a handful of grams.

ShannonM

Why does everyone hate spokes so much?

You've got 36 hole hubs and 36 hole rims... Buy 72 spokes and build two 36 spoke wheels.

--Shannon

TomM

Jealousy of the nipples.