Aardwolf

Hiya Folks,
Yet another frame identification enquiry, I'm hoping somebody might find it slightly interesting.

I bought this really cheap (£20) to learn frame painting on (it's not even my size) but it seems to be an early 50s 3 or 4 speed
so I'm just wondering if anybody has an idea what it is.

Size: 21.5" ctt
Frame Number: on NDS rear dropout, looks like 1110 652
OLD: front 95mm, rear 114mm
BB: Bayliss Wiley, Nervex stamp on shell
Headset: T.D.C (Continental S possibly, 27mm crown race)
Seat post: Sturmey Archer 25.48
Weight: frame 2275g, forks 800g
Braze ons: single shifter + cable stops + weird 'boomerang' pump peg

Drive Side:


Head tube:


Forks:


Frame number:


Seat tube:


BB shell stamp:

merziac

No idea, no help but very cool.

juvela

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lug pattern: NERVEX 45/159

fork crown: NERVEX pattern Nr. 7

bottom bracket shell: NERVEX Ref. 158 -159

upper pump peg: NERVEX Ref. 845

lower pump peg: NERVEX Ref.846

serial placement and format consistent with one employed by Urago; likely used by other makers as well...

marking below axle slot could indicate year


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Aardwolf

Cheers, I understand most of that

Apparently NERVEX Ref.846 is for an Ad Hoc frame pump (https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ged-frame.html)
Which sugests it's French, I was thinking Bayliss Wiley meant it was probably English.
I'll have to check which direction it turns, but I only have the fixed side.

Serial number suggests 1952 then which seems about right.

juvela

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you could measure distance betwixt headplate fastener holes

this could be compared to that of member owned known Urago cycles

cycle appears very french; would be surprised if it is of another national origin

t'is a simple check to measure tube diameters and threading...


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Mr. 66

The fork crown does match a Urago that I have.

Aardwolf

Yep, I found the Sheldon Brown French page (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html)

Top tube: 26.15 diameter
Down tube: 28.12 diameter
Seat tube: 28.14 diameter

So according to Sheldon it's French

Head badge holes are spaced 5cm

Aardwolf

Tried the fixed cup.
I was having trouble remembering which side is the fixed side
(Then I checked on my Holdsworth)

Threaded it into the fixed side (right) and it tightens turning anti clockwise, which I believe is English or Swiss thread.

juvela

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it is possible to start BSC cups in metric shells as the BSC thread pitch diameter is 34.85mm while the metric is 35.0mm

within a couple turns they will start to bind as thread spacing differs

here is the Urago headplate current at this epoch -

​​​​​​

fastener spacing for it is 45mm

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1simplexnut

Hi I have an early 60s Bertin alloy head badge on my desk it measures exactly 5 cm .
Maybe Bertin ?

Aardwolf

I just dabbed some grease on the Bayliss Wiley fixed cup and wound it all the way on - anti clockwise all the way.

juvela

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if cycle manufactured with metric dimension tubing but BSC threading possible frame could have been produced in France for a British importer/distributor

such beasts exist

steerer diameter not mentioned

a BSC threaded adjustable head race will thread on to a metric steerer but will flop about a bit


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Aardwolf

Just measured it at 24.91mm,
which is in line with Sheldons 25mm for French bikes

juvela

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this is an interesting suggestion

member verktyg has written that Bertin was a supplier of some Urago frames

it is possible the two companies may have employed the same serial format at one time

here is a drawing of an Urago serial of 1959 -



Ron Kitching was the Bertin agent for the U.K.

if subject frame a Bertin product it may have come through that supplier

the forum's Bertin expert bertinjim may be able to comment upon the Bertins manufactured for the U.K. market...


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Aardwolf

There's an interesting piece about Ron Kitching and Andre Bertin at https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres.../ron-kitching/

juvela

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member verktyg has written that at the importer/distributor he was part of they could order any detail(s) they wanted with the Bertin cycles they imported into the U.S.

the catalogue/brochure models were evidently examples only

so it is possible RonKit may have been able to order Bertins with BSC threaded bottom bracket shells...

perhaps bertinjim will know


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Aardwolf

Here's a very similar bike:



It's a mid 50s Bertin from https://bertinclassiccycles.wordpres...ers-1950-1959/