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Doing tandem gearing

Old 05-25-23, 02:40 AM
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Doing tandem gearing

I just got my first tandem bike and with all my bikes “I have to gear it out” for those hard set on advising the wiser. I read on this forum once. A member had figured it was pointless to suggest people’s preferences are wrong. Since then I kinda use that in picking arguments.

I traded an electric skateboard for this thing it’s great it rides smooth. I have not tried shifting the gears. It was in a comfortable gear when I got it so I didn’t bother. I want to get fresh linkage and clean things up before I do. The brakes work fine. I’ll freshen things up there too. The cassette is a hyper glide 11or12 to 28T the chain rings are 32-44-54 the tandem side is matching 34T rings. To 26 inch wheels

I’m planning to automatically get the biggest 7 cassette I can find. I’ve seen up to 42T and I was thinking of putting matching 32T on the tandem side. Leaving the three chainring set alone.

should I mess with the tandem side?

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Old 05-25-23, 02:41 AM
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Old 05-25-23, 07:22 AM
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The very first thing I noted missing in the OP is any mention of the rear admiral. Taking care of your partner is rule one. Rule two is anything that goes wrong is the captain's fault and responsibility. Next up is a lack of terrain info, flat or hilly. Nest is how the bike will be ridden, as in how type A are the riders?

Ibis is a very well made tandem and well worth fixing up to your team's preferences, but with no stoker input this is hindered massively

Generally its hard to have too small a gear on a tandem. However the shifting degradation from the long cables, frame flex and rider coordination is a real factor when compared to single bikes. For this reason I would avoid cassette sized that exceed the rear der's capacity, I would not use a hanger lowering adaptor to be able to fit a huge rear cog if at all possible.

I would go with a 34T rear and exchange the rings for smaller ones, a 24T likely will fit on the inner. Since my partner and I spin well and we ride slower than many our middle ring s a 36T and the large is a 46T. We still hit over 45mph on the longer hills in our area.

Seriously get your stoker on the bike for a few easy rides to better understand where the team "stands" WRT communication and comfort before spending serious $.

There's a lot of tandem specific articles and books out there. "The Tandem Scoop" is one book I highly suggest. Andy
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Old 05-25-23, 08:53 AM
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Changing the "synchronizing chainrings" (the matched 34T rings on the left side) will have no effect on the overall gearing. They have to be the same size but the size doesn't matter.
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Old 05-25-23, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
I would go with a 34T rear and exchange the rings for smaller ones, a 24T likely will fit on the inner. Since my partner and I spin well and we ride slower than many our middle ring s a 36T and the large is a 46T. We still hit over 45mph on the longer hills in our area.

my “stoker” new to my vocabulary will change often. I didn’t buy this bike for me and a specific person. I acquired this bike simply because I had never had one and wanted to try it. I just have a habit of modifying perfectly good things. I am aware that the derailleur sorta dictates how much larger I can go on the teeth count on the cassette. They both may have to go. Lol

but with my current setup you recommend me go no bigger than a 34 tooth
*heard

and am I clear on this you are suggesting I put a 24 tooth in place of the 32 tooth in the set of the three chainrings making the set 24-44-54?

this I’m confused about because based on what I know the smallest chainring I can get for a five bolt 110 bcd is a 32 tooth. I would love to learn that I’m wrong though.

if what you say is true I would prefer to step down the whole set to something like 24-36-44 or 46

I would for the most part ride my usual 20-30 miles on flat and streets with inclines and parks on hills with elevation gains at 600ish feet max

I’m not a strava driven cyclist that’s prides himself on the mile count so that’s why I always change gears to something higher than usual because I ride with friends not with cyclist lol

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Old 05-25-23, 11:21 AM
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I forgot to mention and ask about this additional and smaller bolt pattern I see on the back side of both cranks on the synchronized side. What bcd do you think it is? If it even is meant for a chainring. Or it’s something that aids in the machining process. Check it out
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Old 05-25-23, 11:22 AM
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Old 05-25-23, 11:35 AM
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Turns out it’s another 74mm bcd which can take the 24 tooth. So did you mean to put a 24 tooth chainring on the synchronized side?


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Old 05-25-23, 11:57 AM
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Ok I’m seeing and learning. I never knew about 74mm bcd. This is my first. So I think I understand more what you said and I think I’ll do the same like I also said go 24-36 and 46 teeth. That will free up some chain slack. Enough to possibly let me stick that 42 tooth 7 gear cassette in the back without changing derailleurs. We’ll see thanks

and someone said changing the synchronized side would do nothing. Is that true? I don’t think it is but going smaller on that side I think would make it harder to get right and maintain the chain tension on that side. So I’d avoid it. 34 tooth is small enough.
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Old 05-25-23, 11:57 AM
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Old 05-25-23, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
Ok I’m seeing and learning. I never knew about 74mm bcd. This is my first. So I think I understand more what you said and I think I’ll do the same like I also said go 24-36 and 46 teeth. That will free up some chain slack. Enough to possibly let me stick that 42 tooth 7 gear cassette in the back without changing derailleurs. We’ll see thanks

and someone said changing the synchronized side would do nothing. Is that true? I don’t think it is but going smaller on that side I think would make it harder to get right and maintain the chain tension on that side. So I’d avoid it. 34 tooth is small enough.
1) what is your current derailler does it have capacity for 42 tooth max cog and for needed change wrap?

2) the synchronized side have to be equal it is a 1 to 1 ratio so that captain and stoker pedaling exactly the same. so no need to change what is there. it has nothing do do with your gear ratios available to use
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Old 05-25-23, 12:53 PM
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This is it. Nothing special you had mentioned that you wouldn’t go higher than 34t on cassette *as is
thats a 6 tooth addition from the current 28.
if I do go from 32 to 24 in the front. That’s a deduction 8 teeth and if I go from 28 to 42 in the back that’s an addition of 14 teeth. -8 + 14 is 6
which is why I suggest I would be ok on the chain slack/wrap but what I see as a potential issue is actual cassette teeth to derailleur interference. We shall see.
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Old 05-25-23, 01:36 PM
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Most likely your current RDER has a max cog size of 34.
The >34T cogs are quite recent.

I wouldn't change gearing until the 2 of you have ridden together for a bit. You have 2 "engines" and may not need to.
IF you still feel you need to, you'll have a better idea of what you'll really need vs what you think you need.

I see above you will have "various" stokers.
Not everybody is cut out to be a stoker. They have to have a lot of trust in the captain.
I used to ride motorcycles, but I was the worst passenger. I could never commit to trusting the person up front the way that person needs a committed passenger.

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Old 05-25-23, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
my “stoker” new to my vocabulary will change often. I didn’t buy this bike for me and a specific person. I acquired this bike simply because I had never had one and wanted to try it. I just have a habit of modifying perfectly good things. I am aware that the derailleur sorta dictates how much larger I can go on the teeth count on the cassette. They both may have to go. Lol My first tandem was when I had no steady stoker. Of the couple dozen rides I had on that bike only a couple were truly nice ones, due to the stokers not having had tandem experience before and both riders' having some "ego". I pretty much stopped trying to find riders who I liked (not in a relationship sense) and also who could fit the small rear cockpit of the bike. Interesting that the next tandem ride I did back then was on a borrowed bike and with the woman who was to become my wife.

but with my current setup you recommend me go no bigger than a 34 tooth
*heard Its likely the Shimano XT rear der could handle a 36T large cassette cog but being a shop wrench I am hesitant to go against manufacturer recommendations.

and am I clear on this you are suggesting I put a 24 tooth in place of the 32 tooth in the set of the three chainrings making the set 24-44-54? Yes, Shimano's choice of a 30T granny ring was more about their view of gearing needs and how there stuff worked for road systems.

this I’m confused about because based on what I know the smallest chainring I can get for a five bolt 110 bcd is a 32 tooth. I would love to learn that I’m wrong though. The current inner/granny ring is attached to a 74mm bolt pattern set of mounting bosses that are independent of the other two rings' mounts.

if what you say is true I would prefer to step down the whole set to something like 24-36-44 or 46 I agree with your hopes and this is what I mentioned before. Sugino offers their Supershift Pro grade in a 26/36/46 ring set that is a very good choice. If your LBS has a QBP (wholesale supplier) account the part # is CR7704. I would not do a 24 to a 44 tooth jump even on a single bike. Do know that shifting on a tandem is a lot more touchy. The main reason is the lack of coordination between the two riders and how/when they soft pedal during the shifting. This is where communication and anticipation (of up coming shifts) can make the experience go far better.

I would for the most part ride my usual 20-30 miles on flat and streets with inclines and parks on hills with elevation gains at 600ish feet max This is pretty typical of my riding unless I am going on a club ride. The tandem will slow down a huge amount up hills, hence the need to shift and have low gears. I liken a tandem to an 18 wheeler simi truck. You don't want to get stuck behind it up hills but fear its being behind you once the hill goes back down.

I’m not a strava driven cyclist that’s prides himself on the mile count so that’s why I always change gears to something higher than usual because I ride with friends not with cyclist lol
While I do track my miles I don't bother with speed, power or heart rate stuff. I just got back from a 3 riding days mini motel tour. 148 miles at a very slow average. Slower than last year but likely faster than I will be next year.

The big reason why I asked about your nature is that for some tandem teams the type A and type B riders can have a hard time meeting in the middle (or more that the captain can't suppress their type A nature and the stoker learns to not like riding with them). The over used but true joke about riding a tandem with a partner is that where ever the relationship is headed it will get there faster if they ride a tandem. "Devorce makers"... Andy
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Old 05-25-23, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider
Changing the "synchronizing chainrings" (the matched 34T rings on the left side) will have no effect on the overall gearing. They have to be the same size but the size doesn't matter.
In this case size can matter. There's a reason why better tandems have for years come with 40-42T timing rings, better efficiency and longer teeth life. But the differences are not big enough to toss out otherwise good 34T rings. Wait till their worn then get bigger ones, and replace the timing chain at the same time.

The LH side crank arms started out as the usual single bike forgings and machining. Then the tandem spec ones are pulled out of the usual production batch (for the masses of single bikes) and the pedal threads are done (remember these are initially RH arms that are to be used on the LH side so the RH side threading would be the wrong direction). So, the granny ting inner mounting bosses are there but in this use have no need. Its just cheaper to make the very few tandem cranksets this way. Back in the day (1970s and 1980s) enough tandems were being sold so that specific production runs were worth it and the timing side arms usually didn't have the 74mm pattern bosses. Andy
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Old 05-25-23, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer
I was thinking of putting matching 32T on the tandem side. Leaving the three chainring set alone.
Why on earth would you want to change them? But assuming you actually have a reason to, bigger is better. Less stress on the rings and the chain.
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Old 05-25-23, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
......The big reason why I asked about your nature is that for some tandem teams the type A and type B riders can have a hard time meeting in the middle (or more that the captain can't suppress their type A nature and the stoker learns to not like riding with them). The over used but true joke about riding a tandem with a partner is that where ever the relationship is headed it will get there faster if they ride a tandem. "Devorce makers"... Andy
Another reason to do some trial rides before investing $ in changes.
You may run out of stokers in short order.
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Old 05-25-23, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart
In this case size can matter. There's a reason why better tandems have for years come with 40-42T timing rings, better efficiency and longer teeth life.
Yeah, my point was that changing the timing rings would have no effect on the overall gearing, not that the size of the rings was irrelevant for other considerations. What is essential is that they have an equal tooth count.
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Old 05-25-23, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AtNjineer

This is it. Nothing special you had mentioned that you wouldn’t go higher than 34t on cassette *as is
thats a 6 tooth addition from the current 28.
if I do go from 32 to 24 in the front. That’s a deduction 8 teeth and if I go from 28 to 42 in the back that’s an addition of 14 teeth. -8 + 14 is 6
which is why I suggest I would be ok on the chain slack/wrap but what I see as a potential issue is actual cassette teeth to derailleur interference. We shall see.
as best I can find your derailer has a max rear cog of 32 and chain wrap of 38 https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site..._m735_sgs.html
going 34 is probably not an issue but going to 42 pretty sure would would need a different derailler

and if you wanted a 24-36-44 up front that is 20 teeth and 11-42 in back for 31 meaning you need a chain wrap of 51 or so again way beyond the range of what you have
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Old 05-25-23, 05:45 PM
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There is a sister forum here just for tandem talk. I suggest the OP take some time looking at their past topics. The mechanics of the bikes are often the smaller part aspect of a great ride.

At the risk of censors I'll try to say this- Two people riding the same bike can be close to the best sharing experience, with each other, that doesn't include sex or children. Much like dancing or singing but for me able to achieved. Andy (tone and rhythm lacking)
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Old 05-25-23, 06:38 PM
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With two strong riders, a tandem can be notably faster than a single bike, especially in descending situations. For this reason, many tandems have larger high chainrings such as 54-56 teeth. Our Santana came stock with a 54 tooth outer chainring.

Tandems in general can be slower than single bikes on steep uphills, hence the desire for lower low gears. Our tandem has a 28 tooth small chainring, and we're running a 13-15-17-20-24-29-34 cassette. But most of the time we were in the 44 tooth middle ring.

In our 25+ years of experience, we discovered we're a more of a relaxed team, and we never really used the 54 except very rarely on long straight gradual descents. On steep descents, my dear wife was actuating the drum brake long before we'd get close to spinning the 54 in higher gears. So several years ago I swapped the 54 for a 48, giving me the ability to half-step gearing as needed. This usually means most shifting is on the rear, but then I can choose either the 44 or 48 to fine-tune effort, which is nice when there are two of you working. When switching to a half-step, I did have to swap the MTB front derailleur for a road front in order to not mash the middle ring, though. The 48-13 highest gear lets us pedal to about 24 mph or so, and after that we just coast and enjoy. I suppose I could swap the 28 inner for a 24 now, but so far the 28-34 has been low enough to get us up all our climbs so far.

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Old 05-25-23, 06:45 PM
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One more comment: Tandem rear wheels typically have "tandem-rated" hubs and freehub assemblies specially designed for the loads that two strong riders can simultaneously place on a wheel or drivetrain. If you swap parts out, don't swap the rear hub/wheel unless you replace it with a tandem-rated one. I see the Ibis has a tandem-sized disc in the rear intended as a drag brake, so that's a good sign that perhaps the rear wheel is the original tandem-rated one. Also, the overlock distance (distance inside the rear dropouts) is notably larger than for standard bikes. Our Santana has a 145 mm OLD, and it's considered narrow by current standards.
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Old 05-25-23, 06:57 PM
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instead of repeatedly trying to get someone to back your idea to swap out the timing rings for 24s,you SHOULD be concerned with making sure the Eccentric Bottom bracket isn't stuck and won't become so in the future.... it's used to set chain tension correctly and they often become reluctant to move.

those ft/rr. Timing Chainrings on the left side MUST BE THE SAME TOOTH COUNT, and, by that known fact. they DO NOT AFFECT GEARING one tiny bit, ok? Leave them alone.... and the cranksets must be timed to be the SAME, pedal/side relation-wise to make balance and pedaling easier for TWO people.

BTW.. nice bike! i own a Santana tandem. If i was to do anything to your bike, i'd swap in a smaller inner triple ring, and a somewhat smaller middle ring, get a higher wrap rear Der, and UPGRADE to a Front Disc Brake and fork to try and compete with that MASSIVE rear disc.. and Lube that Eccentric BB before it seizes... .

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Old 05-26-23, 11:12 AM
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I’m learning a lot from y’all thank you one thing that I haven’t really read is the level of difficulty and team work needed to be successful at riding a tandem. I’m sure I will have plenty of failed attempts.

In reality the first things I’m trying to do is to service the bb’s and and put a fresh chain on the timing side just so that side is done.

I’m convinced the gears don’t have to be changed on that side. On the other side. Is the drive side still the drive side on a tandem. I’ll get the 24 tooth at retail and see what I can score for the other two larger rings. I usually focus on freshening things up before I get to modifying and I like to wait for the holiday deals. I’m happy to learn about tandem rated parts as someone mentioned. I’ll keep this in mind when I’m shopping.

I’m not looking for backers as someone said. For a 24t timing chain. I was clarifying what someone said and at the same time trying to figure out what new terms like synchronized side and timing chainring actually meant.

Also some said they would go with a 26-46 tooth jump but not go with a 24-46 tooth jump. Why is that?

Would 24-44 be ok?
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Old 05-26-23, 11:42 AM
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RCMoeur 
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Originally Posted by maddog34
... UPGRADE to a Front Disc Brake and fork to try and compete with that MASSIVE rear disc..
I think the "massive rear" disc is intended to be a drag brake for long descents, not for everyday stopping (although it seems more than adequate for that purpose as well). The extra-large disc is intended for heat shedding, not performance. As I recall, these super-sized discs replaced the Arai drum brakes with large heat sinks found on older tandems.

Although the original cantilever brakes are good, replacing the front brake with a properly-adjusted V brake should be strong enough to skid the front wheel. That being said, testing it in such a manner with a stoker on board can result in strong words and possible violence from the back seat, along with involuntary nocturnal relocation to the couch (don't ask me how I know these things, but being able to skid the front wheel briefly seemed cool at the moment).
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