Phamilton

I feel like the bike looks ridiculous now but it feels pretty good. The stem is 130mm that I had in the parts bin but never used. The 100mm that was on it didn’t feel “right” so I just put this one on. Am I gonna hurt myself somehow if I continue to ride like this? I’m 39. After I took the photo of me on the bike (with 130mm stem), I moved the saddle forward about 1cm and the bars up about 1cm. The final photo is where the bike feels good. In other words, it looks weird, what am I doing wrong. I’ve had the bike a few weeks.

bOsscO

Looks great. If it feels good and you still have some bend in your elbows it should be good. Have you considered getting a proper bike fit?

Phamilton

Ok, thank you. Yeah, when I moved the saddle forward and the bars up, that’s what gave me more bend in the elbows than in the pic.

If something starts to hurt, I’ll think about a fit. I was usually a little sore after riding before, and I’m not sore now, during or after a ride. Definitely feel better after a ride since putting the longer stem on. Maybe I can get an after pic of me on the bike.

Phamilton

I know that there are long-bearded wizards who lurk here who can determine a person’s future based upon a crappy garage pic of them just sitting upon their bike.

caloso

Doesn't look weird at all.

Phamilton

I also don’t like to pay people to do things with their wrenches that I can do with my own wrenches. I figure if it doesn’t hurt after riding for an hour, it’s probably ok. This particular setup feels better than not bad, it feels GOOD. The bike handles way better, too. With the shorter stem, it sort of felt like pushing around a shopping cart. With the longer one, I can really push down on the front wheel when I accelerate. It’s sort of hard to articulate how a bike feels. For whatever reason, with the longer stem, it makes me want to punish the front wheel, because when I do, the bike responds with acceleration.

Phamilton

I appreciate that the bike fit wizards can work with emotional descriptions of a riding experience.

Phamilton

Also, if this is worth anything - the front hub is just eclipsed by the bars when I’m riding and my hands are on the hoods. I’ve heard some people say this is supposed to be correct but I’m not sure what the wizards say about it. I honestly can’t remember where it was before. I didn’t think to look until after I changed the stem.

Phamilton

I’ve had other bikes, all roughly the same size. My last one was a touring bike. I messed with the stem some but never put a longer one on it. This bike rips after putting the longer stem on it. I mean, it felt “quick” before, but it’s very satisfying to thrash now. Any guitarists reading, the touring bike was a Martin acoustic. This bike with the short stem was a Strat with 11s. This bike with the long stem, is like a Jackson with 9s. I just want to feel like the only reason I’m going to hurt my body is by crashing into other objects because I’m riding too fast. Repetitive use injuries are real, and I’m not old but I’m not getting younger. Thought I would ask the wizards.

Phamilton

This bike might force me to purchase a helmet.

Phamilton

It’s sort of like a new sensation for me, riding a bike like I’m trying to break it. I couldn’t ride it as hard before, because it hurt my knees and back. I never really got a workout from
riding it. It’s really fun to like, try to destroy it now. If that makes sense. Because my body doesn’t hurt while I’m riding now, I want to kill the bike. I couldn’t quite stand up and pedal before, it was too “cramped”. Now that I have room, I not only want to stand up and pedal, I want to try to shred the drivetrain to pieces when I do.

Iride01 

If you don't find your elbows fully extended and locked during the ride when you aren't thinking of them, then you are probably good enough. It looks like you are on the edge of that though. I am too, and am getting a slightly shorter stem.

You got some old style looking bars with a long reach themselves as well as the long stem you added. How does it feel in the drops for you? Both when in the forward part of the drops where you can reach the brakes and the lower part. If you are too stretched out there, then you might try some short reach bars like many with STI's are using today.

Drops something you need to be comfortable in. Though many ride much of their time on the hoods or top bar now, the drops will give you more aero position for longer rides were you need to save energy. Even climbing hills drops might save you just enough energy to look good as you crest the top. Though if you still are grinding out a climb at 10 mph, it probably doesn't matter.

Phamilton

Also a different sensation being winded but not sore at the end of a ride.

Phamilton

I felt just a little too stretched in the photo but moving the saddle forward a little and the bars up a little seems to have fixed that.

In the drops, it feels ok except it makes me want to slide forward on my saddle a little. Which doesn’t really hurt, it’s just something I’m not used to. I have to really crunch my abs to do it.

I seldom ride for more than an hour. It feels comfortable enough now to ride for longer, but it’s so much more fun to ride now, I’m sure I’d wear myself out before then.

Phamilton

And also, dear wizards: why do my legs feel better after changing my stem? I left my saddle the same, aside from moving it forward maybe a cm.

Edit: please accept my humble apology, o wizards. Upon further reflection, I remembered that I also moved my saddle up approx 1cm before the stem swap, I just didn’t ride it.

Road Fan

My first thought is your saddle may be a little high. I can't wizard my way through a suggestion, beyond take a look at this link from another current thread (Google "heel on pedal saddle height."). This is a really old technique, but it works very well. It gets you (or most people) enought saddle height to use the power in your legs and glutes, but also not so high that your hips rock excessively.

Then I would set saddle fore-aft so your butt bones have good support in thte drops, hoods, ramps and not falling forward whilc upright. Look at the websites of Steve Hogg to get a good idea of how this works. It will be different depending on how much bar drop you use.

But you should be setting bar reach by changing the stem rather than moing the saddle. Several gurus who may also be wizards ask you to adjust your reach so the upper arms are perpendicular to your upper back when in the hooks. Again this function varies with how deep you bend. It's definitely possible to have a reach too long.

I don't know why your legs are sensitive to reach, but the human body is all connected together. If your knee bend in the first photo is not deep enough (it might be) that would be affected by height and setback, but it's not straightforward.

I WOULD check on the heel test and the saddle setback criteria.

I'd also check out the following link: https://www.bikeforums.net/21296948-post3.html, also from Carbonfiberboy.

c_m_shooter

If it feels good, ride it. The fact that you need that long of a stem means when it comes time to buy another bike, you should get one with a longer top tube.

phughes

I agree on the eat height. He looks as if he is reaching for the pedal in the picture, he is definitely toe down. A slightly lower seat height would probably help immensely.

And yes, do not adjust reach using the seat set back, get that set so you are stable in the saddle, and are able to take your hands off the bar while pedaling under a fair load without falling forward. Also remember, if you move your seat back, you will have to drop your saddle slightly.

philbob57

Moving the seat forward lowers the seat height, right? Since you feel better with the seat more forward, maybe you need a lower seat height and shorter stem. I hope you bend your elbows.

Phamilton

It was raising the saddle and putting a longer stem on that made the bike more comfortable. So to make it even MORE more comfortable, I should lower the saddle and put the shorter stem back on. Got it.

Iride01 

Bike fit can be a confusing thing. When I first got back into cycling my drop from seat to bars was about like your first picture. As I rode more often and further, I found that I needed the bars lower and lower. Had to wind up getting a new bike partly to satisfy that need to get lower.

But making generalizations, I will say that if you are a casual leisure rider going out for an hours ride, you'll probably want to sit up. Road bikes are not really designed for that, but you can make them work somewhat. If you are riding for fitness and at a higher effort for 2 or more hour rides, then as you get fitter, you might find as I did that lower in front is better.

fishboat

Moving the saddle fore and aft isn't a proper adjustment to get your cockpit reach right.

The saddle should be adjusted in for height and fore/aft to get your knee(cap-front) in the right relationship to the pedal spindle. Once the saddle position is adjusted in it becomes a constant. The front end of the cockpit is then adjusted via the stem height/angle/length in conjunction with bars that have their own rise, reach, drop, and sweep characteristics.

There are fitting guides on the web that'll outline the process..

philbob57

I was unclear. I apologize

You may have pulled more seatpost out of the seat tube, but by moving your seat forward, you effectively lowered the seat. Your toes point down, which may mean the seat is too high..In moving the seat forward, you also decreased the distance between seat and handlebars, effectively shortening your stem.

Your arms look fully extended. If I draw imaginary lines and triangles, I don't see much margin for bending your elbows, even with raising the 'bars. If you ride with your elbows straight, you make yourself vulnerable to hand, wrist, elbow, and/or shoulder pain. Moving the bars up further shortened the distance between your butt and your 'bars. You don't include a photo, so we can't see how much you bend your elbows. My triangles may be off more than I think they are.

Looking at your photo, I have a hard time seeing how the bars can obstruct your view of the front hub. A straight line from your eyes to the hub looks unobstructed by the 'bars.

If seat-pedal and seat-'bars spacing is to your liking, that is what counts - but with toes pointing down and your arms straight, the spacing doesn't look all that great for you.
I think you may have pain because of your position if you take 2-3 hour or longer rides. If you do, it's likely to be because your seat is too high and/or your 'bars are too far forward. If you experience pain on rides longer than an hour, I'd suggest changing your seat height. first, because it's a lot easier than changing a quill stem. If pain persists, replace the stem with something shorter.

Iride01 

Since other's brought it up, in the photo with you on the bike, your foot is pointed slightly down, but I think that is the general angle with the ground of my foot through out the entire stroke, up, down and around.

Though I have my foot further forward on the pedal than yours. And if when riding your foot is also further forward then maybe saddle is too high.

It might feel funny at first, but putting your foot a little more forward on the pedal will reduce any strain your calf muscles and ankles might be feeling on long rides.

Phamilton

Sure, that’s all fine. I already said though that the picture was taken before I made the final adjustments. Saddle down about 10mm and bars up. I just don’t have a picture after the adjustments. After I made those small adjustments, my feet were more forward on the pedals and I had some more bend in my elbows. It feels good to me now, and the hub is more or less behind the bars. Maybe I’ll put a 120mm stem eventually. The bars aren’t that low. It’s 40” from the ground to the top of the saddle and 37 1/2” to top of the bars. That’s a 2 1/2” drop. That’s not that much. And I already don’t have any pain.