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Quebec tour (Gatineau-Quebec-Tadoussac-Saguenay-Quebec) in September - Seeking Recomm

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Quebec tour (Gatineau-Quebec-Tadoussac-Saguenay-Quebec) in September - Seeking Recomm

Old 08-23-21, 12:18 PM
  #26  
Miele Man
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[QUOTE=user2;22196202]
Originally Posted by Miele Man

I'm intrigued by this idea, especially for rough roads. Do you just use a single strap starting from near the axle, up and over both panniers and terminating near the other axle?
I use one Arno strap on each pannier wrapped horizontally around the pannier, the rack strut and the seatstay.

Cheers

Edit.

My friend did the same as I did but used bungee cords. On a test ride on a paved trail and riding downhill one of his rear panniers fell off the bike. When he switched to using the Arno straps he had no more problems. We toured in Northern Ontario and rode some pretty rough roads and never had a worry about a pannier coming off. Yet the Arno straps are quick to take off if you want to remove the pannier.

Last edited by Miele Man; 08-23-21 at 12:22 PM. Reason: Added comment about bugee cords
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Old 08-23-21, 04:18 PM
  #27  
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good to know what you are using.
First of all, Arkel stuff is good quality all around, and the cam lock system is known for being robust and effective. I personally have been using Ortliebs since about 93 or 94, but know that the Arkel system is a great , proven system.

its pretty easy to fatten up the rail a bit, but the cam lock motion may abrade the tape a bit over time. Probably no harm in just trying out some electric tape , or cloth hockey stick tape (which is pretty tough, Ive used it on bike parts for eons, and it hardens over time which is nice)
and you can see how it works. Personally that little amount of play wouldnt bother many people, but I admit that I eliminated play with my Ortliebs before doing some long trips that I mentioned.
Mind you, I commute on a bike with older ortliebs and some play, and it doesnt bother me.
If you do try the tape it fatter route, its probably better to cover more length of rail than you think, in case your panniers shift forwards or backwards a bit.

re the bottom movement of the pannier coming away a bit from the bike. I guess its personal also, but that doesnt bother me too much, as long as the top stuff is not coming off--and lets face it, you'll be on paved roads the whole time, so I really dont see it as an issue---but, heck , throwing on a really solid and secure strap seems pretty darn easy.
You just really want to be sure that it doesnt end up in a wheel, thats all--but from all the stuff Ive read, and as the last guy said, its a pretty common trick to keep things stable.
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Old 08-25-21, 07:45 AM
  #28  
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for what its worth, the weather forecast seems to show that the killer heat we are having is going to lessen by friday, so hopefully you won't be starting out in these 31, 32, 33c days with humidity to match.

as you already said, I think it will be good to just have the mindset that you may have super hot and you may have pretty cool at nights also.
I'm sure this mixed bag will be the reality.
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Old 08-25-21, 02:30 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by djb
good to know what you are using.
First of all, Arkel stuff is good quality all around, and the cam lock system is known for being robust and effective. I personally have been using Ortliebs since about 93 or 94, but know that the Arkel system is a great , proven system.

its pretty easy to fatten up the rail a bit, but the cam lock motion may abrade the tape a bit over time. Probably no harm in just trying out some electric tape , or cloth hockey stick tape (which is pretty tough, Ive used it on bike parts for eons, and it hardens over time which is nice)
and you can see how it works. Personally that little amount of play wouldnt bother many people, but I admit that I eliminated play with my Ortliebs before doing some long trips that I mentioned.
Mind you, I commute on a bike with older ortliebs and some play, and it doesnt bother me.
If you do try the tape it fatter route, its probably better to cover more length of rail than you think, in case your panniers shift forwards or backwards a bit.

re the bottom movement of the pannier coming away a bit from the bike. I guess its personal also, but that doesnt bother me too much, as long as the top stuff is not coming off--and lets face it, you'll be on paved roads the whole time, so I really dont see it as an issue---but, heck , throwing on a really solid and secure strap seems pretty darn easy.
You just really want to be sure that it doesnt end up in a wheel, thats all--but from all the stuff Ive read, and as the last guy said, its a pretty common trick to keep things stable.
In the grand scheme of things I think the pannier rattling is the least of my concerns so I'll probably just leave it for now. It's only an issue when going over rough roads or the concrete transitions between cycle paths/roads/driveways. It's more of a mental thing that I don't like the sensation of the load wiggling around. I've actually got a couple cam-lock straps that I might bring with me.

The Arkel system does seem really solid and nearly impossible to shake off the rack when the cams are engaged properly. The only downside in my view is the need for a bit of extra space for the cams to swing without hitting the vertical parts of the rack. When I first started using them there were a couple occasions where I had one end become unhooked because I wasn't paying attention to make sure the cams were fully engaged.

Originally Posted by djb
for what its worth, the weather forecast seems to show that the killer heat we are having is going to lessen by friday, so hopefully you won't be starting out in these 31, 32, 33c days with humidity to match.

as you already said, I think it will be good to just have the mindset that you may have super hot and you may have pretty cool at nights also.
I'm sure this mixed bag will be the reality.
Yup, it looks pretty good at the moment and should make things a bit easier for us starting out. Although I'm a little off-put by the current forecast for rain on day 1 (Saturday). I'm hoping we can enjoy our cleaned and lubed bikes for at least one day.
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Old 08-25-21, 03:25 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by user2
In the grand scheme of things I think the pannier rattling is the least of my concerns so I'll probably just leave it for now. It's only an issue when going over rough roads or the concrete transitions between cycle paths/roads/driveways. It's more of a mental thing that I don't like the sensation of the load wiggling around. I've actually got a couple cam-lock straps that I might bring with me.
The Arkel system does seem really solid and nearly impossible to shake off the rack when the cams are engaged properly. The only downside in my view is the need for a bit of extra space for the cams to swing without hitting the vertical parts of the rack. When I first started using them there were a couple occasions where I had one end become unhooked because I wasn't paying attention to make sure the cams were fully engaged.
Yup, it looks pretty good at the moment and should make things a bit easier for us starting out. Although I'm a little off-put by the current forecast for rain on day 1 (Saturday). I'm hoping we can enjoy our cleaned and lubed bikes for at least one day.
I get you on the not liking the wiggle thing. In general, when a pannier is more full it tends to sway less, as the entire structure is "tighter" and moves less. Anyway, you'll see how it is and get used to it, or use the straps too.

ya, I saw the rain thing and went...ooops. As you say about the clean and lubed bikes, thats what always bugs me about riding in rain, is that I like to keep my drivetrain clean, so it means more work afterwards. Ive been pretty lucky over the years touring with rain, but obviously we have to deal with it sometimes. After a day riding in rain, I always wipe the chain with a rag well, at least this gets a lot of the gook off, I do the jockey wheels and maybe floss the cassette with the cloth also, and a quick wipe off of the chainrings. Not too long to do, and then I relube the chain, depending on how long it had been since lubed, how much rain, etc
This is why I always have a rag with me, and on long trips, will grab a discarded shirt or whatever off the side of the road at some point when my rag starts to get pretty dirty. Keeping the frame and whatnot clean isnt a big deal, but Im one of those riders who makes an effort to keep the drivetrain clean, its a win win anyway to do it regularly, less work and faster, plus your drivetrain lasts a lot longer than if you ignore it, like many riders do.
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Old 08-26-21, 05:37 AM
  #31  
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A few more last minute thoughts, kinda late but hey...
On a set schedule trip, try to have some wiggle room for days off. I know you have the car rental set up, so similar to when you have a flight back and have to be there for that, but try not to have a plan that's too tight and absolutely requires riding 100km per day, every single day sort of thing.

re Saturday and rain. I have to admit, if I saw it will be steady rain all day....it would be hard to want to start.....but you're just going to have to make the call from the fairly accurate weather hourly reports we have access to now.

You probably have already planned out each days ride and destination (mostly or all camping right? ) but keep in mind that it's usually good to at least have some idea of an option B shorter day, or C longer day. Often not an option due to campground locations, but there you go.

on multi week trips, I've always wanted to take a day off about once a week. You can do every 5, 6 days, whatever feels right for both of you--and it's always good to be accommodating and flexible with each other with this sort of stuff and communicate well with each other.
The taking a break day is nice, and even when I was your age it was nice, and it hasn't changed now that I'm as old as your parents.
Schlepping a heavy touring bike will be more tiring the first week, so sometimes an earlier rest day in that first bit can be nice.

cheers again
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Old 08-26-21, 02:01 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by djb
A few more last minute thoughts, kinda late but hey...
On a set schedule trip, try to have some wiggle room for days off. I know you have the car rental set up, so similar to when you have a flight back and have to be there for that, but try not to have a plan that's too tight and absolutely requires riding 100km per day, every single day sort of thing.

re Saturday and rain. I have to admit, if I saw it will be steady rain all day....it would be hard to want to start.....but you're just going to have to make the call from the fairly accurate weather hourly reports we have access to now.

You probably have already planned out each days ride and destination (mostly or all camping right? ) but keep in mind that it's usually good to at least have some idea of an option B shorter day, or C longer day. Often not an option due to campground locations, but there you go.

on multi week trips, I've always wanted to take a day off about once a week. You can do every 5, 6 days, whatever feels right for both of you--and it's always good to be accommodating and flexible with each other with this sort of stuff and communicate well with each other.
The taking a break day is nice, and even when I was your age it was nice, and it hasn't changed now that I'm as old as your parents.
Schlepping a heavy touring bike will be more tiring the first week, so sometimes an earlier rest day in that first bit can be nice.

cheers again
Thanks for the advice. I sort of threw together a hypothetical plan just to make sure the overall trip and daily distances are doable:

We won't actually spend 7 days in QC, I just kind of left those days as extra rest days.

We were thinking of deciding each day how far we go or when/where to take rest days based on how we're feeling. I marked out a bunch of campsites to make it easier to plan and I don't think there are any stretches longer than about 60km along our route without a half-decent campsite option. We planned to camp most of the time but will also stay in hotels in cities or if we just want a roof because the weather is getting us down or whatever. Then we'll try to arrive in QC a couple days early to do tourist stuff before the car rental day.
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Old 08-26-21, 05:08 PM
  #33  
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Looks like a great plan, probably painlessly doable.

Perhaps you want to list travel time as well as (or instead of) kms. ex: Trois-Rivière > Quebec (148 kms) should take roughly the same time as Quebec > Baie St-Paul (actually, likely less -- apps underestimate the duration of loaded trips when gradient is steep).
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Old 08-26-21, 05:33 PM
  #34  
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I just did a quick google maps thing of QC to Baie St Paul and it estimates about 900m of climbing, and 900m of dumping altitude over 96 klicks. Like I said, depending on your experience going fast on two wheels, be wary of letting things get out of hand speed wise, especially if there is a tail wind.
So 900m climbing isnt horrible, just pace yourselves well.

as for the 150k day, be sure to be well rested and make sure you are eating well (balanced diet wise) as it's still a big old day. Early start is key so you can really pace within yourselves.

ironically enough, I'll be in Ottawa this weekend visiting family.
oh, good to know that you can hit a hotel if needed and for a break from a wet tent or whatever.
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Old 08-27-21, 10:34 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by gauvins
Looks like a great plan, probably painlessly doable.

Perhaps you want to list travel time as well as (or instead of) kms. ex: Trois-Rivière > Quebec (148 kms) should take roughly the same time as Quebec > Baie St-Paul (actually, likely less -- apps underestimate the duration of loaded trips when gradient is steep).
That's an interesting idea, I added the travel times + 25% to account for loaded touring. I know the elevation data can vary a lot from one app to another but I included the Brouter ones in because it was handy. Ridewithgps gives me about 10,000m total elevation gain over the entire route vs about 6,000m total in Brouter.


You're right, the Trois-Rivière > Quebec (148 kms) is an hour shorter than Quebec > Baie St-Paul (97km).

Originally Posted by djb
as for the 150k day, be sure to be well rested and make sure you are eating well (balanced diet wise) as it's still a big old day. Early start is key so you can really pace within yourselves.
Yeah, 150k would be a pretty big day for us. When we did our overnight shakedown trip last month we had a 115km day and we were both pretty tired for a few days afterward.
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Old 08-27-21, 01:16 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by user2
Yeah, 150k would be a pretty big day for us. When we did our overnight shakedown trip last month we had a 115km day and we were both pretty tired for a few days afterward.
as a reference, well an internet stranger reference, 120k give or take has been the most I've ever done touring and that felt like a lot.
while I'm a slight guy, I figure I'm probably pretty average all in all.
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Old 08-27-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by user2

Yeah, 150k would be a pretty big day for us. When we did our overnight shakedown trip last month we had a 115km day and we were both pretty tired for a few days afterward.
But you'll have had a couple of days to get used to cycling for several hours; and you've planned several days in Québec -- plenty of time to recover.

Take care
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Old 08-27-21, 03:39 PM
  #38  
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as for the weather, it probably wont be rainy all day, and in the big scheme of things, we just have to get through it and this is part of touring--the mindset of sometimes things aren't great, weather, traffic, whatever, but then a day later we'll have a great day--neat landscapes, fun encounters with people etc and you forget the blah day.

kinda a metaphor for life isn't it?
Roll with stuff and keep a positive attitude.
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Old 08-27-21, 07:21 PM
  #39  
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To User 2.

I thought that I had images of my Arno straps on the panniers on my bikes. I guess I lost those along with a lot of others when my old laptop died.

Here are a couple of images I took tonight. the Arno strap is located higher on the pannier than what I usually have it. I don't have a problem with an Arno strap slipping down the frame or pannier.




If I want more security I wrap the Arno strap around the seatstay and also around the last support on t he rack. I don't usually do that. I feed t he Arno strap behind the seatstay and rack supports and then fed t he strap through its buckle at the side of the pannier. Arno straps make panniers very secure to the rack yet are easy to diengage when needed.

If you want clearer images let me know and I'll take some tomorrow with a white paper between the strap and Arno strap to show the Arno strap much more clearly.

Cheers
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Old 08-28-21, 03:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Miele Man
To User 2.

I thought that I had images of my Arno straps on the panniers on my bikes. I guess I lost those along with a lot of others when my old laptop died.

Here are a couple of images I took tonight. the Arno strap is located higher on the pannier than what I usually have it. I don't have a problem with an Arno strap slipping down the frame or pannier.

If I want more security I wrap the Arno strap around the seatstay and also around the last support on t he rack. I don't usually do that. I feed t he Arno strap behind the seatstay and rack supports and then fed t he strap through its buckle at the side of the pannier. Arno straps make panniers very secure to the rack yet are easy to diengage when needed.

If you want clearer images let me know and I'll take some tomorrow with a white paper between the strap and Arno strap to show the Arno strap much more clearly.

Cheers
Appreciate this, thanks. My panniers are kind of tapered towards the bottom so I will have to watch closely if I try this to make sure the strap doesn't slip down and get caught in the wheel.

I like this idea, especially for trips involving rough gravel roads I'm sure it makes everything more secure and the panniers will last longer too.
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Old 08-28-21, 06:29 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by user2
Appreciate this, thanks. My panniers are kind of tapered towards the bottom so I will have to watch closely if I try this to make sure the strap doesn't slip down and get caught in the wheel.

I like this idea, especially for trips involving rough gravel roads I'm sure it makes everything more secure and the panniers will last longer too.
Good morning and wish you a good first day, looking out the window at the Ottawa morning imagining you probably out there.

there's a guy occasionally on here who used arkels and biked all across the 'Stans, Uzbekistan etc and as far as I remember, had no problems and praised arkel stuff and the mount system. Don't recall if he used straps but I'm sure he rode over more rough surfaces there than I did in my Mexico and central America trips.
Larger, more voluminous tires at lower pressures do help though, to an extent, but panniers are still going to get shaken about. This is why I made the steps to eliminate any free play, fattening up the rails with tubing and tape, and it works well overall.
I used 2inch wide tires, they don't look it because my frame can take larger ones, so these look small.
I also left a lot of space between tires and fenders in case of mud, or if I needed to put on some knobby tires.

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Old 08-28-21, 10:18 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by user2
Appreciate this, thanks. My panniers are kind of tapered towards the bottom so I will have to watch closely if I try this to make sure the strap doesn't slip down and get caught in the wheel.

I like this idea, especially for trips involving rough gravel roads I'm sure it makes everything more secure and the panniers will last longer too.
When you tighten it the Arno strap bites into the pannier and therefore doesn't slip down. They have a metal buckle very similar to a toe-strap and are simple to tighten or loosen.


Here is a poor quality image (it's a photo of a small photo) that shows the panniers I first used Arno straps on way back in the 1980s.



Good luck and cheers
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Old 08-30-21, 04:52 AM
  #43  
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Thanks for the additional info on the panniers and straps.

We've made it from Gatineau to Montreal and things are going well so far. Riding the loaded bike is kind of fun, it's like driving truck the way it just kind of rolls over everything.

I was a little anxious when the hotel staff here in Westmount asked us to keep the bikes in the underground parking garage given how often I hear about bikes getting stolen from apartment parking garages in Ottawa. We checked out the garage and it was just an empty bike rack in one of the parking spots. Maybe I was overly conservative since the garage requires a room key to access, but we ended up bringing the bikes up to the room with us. I'm not sure what we would have done if they seen and stopped us from bringing them up here though. We only packed a cheap cable lock for the trip. I'm sure the bike security will become less of a concern as we go further away from the big cities, but it just sucks having to worry about the security situation at places like this.
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Old 08-30-21, 05:55 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by user2
I was a little anxious when the hotel staff here in Westmount asked us to keep the bikes in the underground parking garage given how often I hear about bikes getting stolen from apartment parking garages in Ottawa.
If we want a motel/hotel, we look for a mom-and-pop "motel" out of town. Usually lower price and motels have a place to put bike in front of room, if not inside room. In QC we stayed at a bike-friendly place, Le Widor, that had safe storage and was close to stuff. Look for Bienvenue Cyclistes signs.
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Old 08-30-21, 06:03 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by IPassGas
If we want a motel/hotel, we look for a mom-and-pop "motel" out of town. Usually lower price and motels have a place to put bike in front of room, if not inside room. In QC we stayed at a bike-friendly place, Le Widor, that had safe storage and was close to stuff. Look for Bienvenue Cyclistes signs.
Yeah, we might look to stay at some of the Bienvenue Cyclistes ones since they are obviously cyclist friendly and required to provide secure storage. There's a handful of those in Montreal but they were relatively more expensive.
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Old 08-30-21, 06:44 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by user2
Thanks for the additional info on the panniers and straps.

We've made it from Gatineau to Montreal and things are going well so far. Riding the loaded bike is kind of fun, it's like driving truck the way it just kind of rolls over everything.

I was a little anxious when the hotel staff here in Westmount asked us to keep the bikes in the underground parking garage given how often I hear about bikes getting stolen from apartment parking garages in Ottawa. We checked out the garage and it was just an empty bike rack in one of the parking spots. Maybe I was overly conservative since the garage requires a room key to access, but we ended up bringing the bikes up to the room with us. I'm not sure what we would have done if they seen and stopped us from bringing them up here though. We only packed a cheap cable lock for the trip. I'm sure the bike security will become less of a concern as we go further away from the big cities, but it just sucks having to worry about the security situation at places like this.
ya a loaded bike feeling is very much like a truck, we accelerate slowly, we slow down so quickly going up hills and we downshift a lot-- but it's fun in its own way.

glad too hear that you listened to your common sense thing about the bikes, that's really good, and important. Sneaking bikes into rooms is a very good skill! Just always be careful of chains and bed sheets or curtains, leave no trace.
Too bad I'm in Ottawa, I would have suggested a quick hello.
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Old 09-06-21, 10:32 AM
  #47  
GamblerGORD53
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Elevation 666m Edmonton Canada
Posts: 2,457

Bikes: 2013 Custom SA5w / Rohloff Tourster

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I only once had a little hotel tell me to keep the bike outside, but it was the tiny village of Field, and I couldn't lift it to the second story anyway.
In Montreal by the freeway, the hotel offered their closet. A bunch of them do this if they refuse bikes in the room.
On my car trip, my CCM was tied to the roof, except for a few layover nights.
Have a great trip.
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