COBikeLover

I wanted to specifically create a thread for this topic because there wasn't much conversation or opinions on the matter out there when I was looking for information. This way there is a thread that folks can add to over time if they have similar questions or experience with it also.


The question I was asking, "Is the Brooks B67 good for touring compared to the Brooks B17 (or Flyer)?"


The few opinions that were out there had left me with the impression that a Brooks B67 might be a good saddle for touring and/or lots of miles in general compared to the B17 or Flyer. So I went ahead and purchased a Brooks B67 without any prior experience with any of these saddles before. In my opinion, that was a mistake for the amount of miles/kilometers I am putting an average of about 30-50 miles (50-80 kilometers) a day in, with rides often exceeding those miles, and the B67 is just too uncomfortable in certain spots when you are putting in that many miles. When you are upright the seat is comfortable, but I struggled with chaffing and a perpetual sore that I could not shake because of how wide the seat is and the extra flange that comes up on the bike due to the extra width.


I received a Flyer today and tried that out and I could notice the difference immediately after one long ride. When you are putting in that many miles, I just don't see how the B67 can be comfortable long term, and that is with wearing padded shorts the entire time. It creates a problem just outside the padding on your bum where the difference in the B67 wideness takes place. For some strange reason the Flyer doesn't seem as spongee as the B67 either.


I have also heard people claim in other threads about these seats and the spring "squeaking." I don't have this problem with either seat and they are both very quiet compared to some things I have seen others say about them.


After I get some more miles in I will update this if anything changes...but if you are unsure of which seat to get for touring between the B67 or the B17 or the Flyer and posting the same questions to Google, then this thread is for you. I would definitely go with the B17 or the Flyer for long miles in general or touring. I guess the other thing I realized "after" is that when you are looking at all the pictures of touring bikes in general, it is extremely rare to see a B67 on one of them. There must be a reason for this. If the B67 really was that comfortable or more comfortable then folks would be using them more on touring bikes. But they are not and I made a purchased based on a small minority recommendations instead of just looking at what the norm is.


Add any other feedback you might have as time goes on. I just wanted this thread up so nobody makes the same mistake I did if they have no prior knowledge with these seats either.

Happy Feet

Define touring bike. That's the first problem. Not all bikes are the same.

I have both the B67 and a Velo Orange version of the Flyer and a C17 and like them all. But it totally depends on your posture. The 67 is a more upright saddle overall that really doesn't feel right when flexed forward as in using dropbars for example (the nose digs into the groin), while the Flyer / B17 / C17 suit a more road bike like posture. The contact points on your sit bones open up more when you sit upright (compared to flexed forward) which is why the 67 is correctly wider. You also put more weight through your sit bones when upright (less distributed through the arms). Flex forward though for long periods and that width will chafe. Sit upright on a B17 molded for a flexed posture and the width becomes too narrow for your sit bones. Different saddles for different postures.

Here's a pic of a B67 on my converted mtb that I have no problem putting 100+km's days on it.

Aubergine 

Tourist in MSN

Everybody has a different shaped bum. I prefer a Conquest or Brooks Pro. The Conquest is essentially a sprung Pro. These are narrower saddles and work well for me when I use the drops on my drop bars.

But if I am sitting more upright, a Flyer or B17 will work for me. But when I use the drops they are too wide. I have used a Flyer for mountain biking, but there I am not using the drops much. (I do my mountain biking on my expedition bike that has drop bars.) Next time I do a mountain biking trip, I would probably put a Flyer back on the bike for that trip.

But for touring or long distance riding I think most people find that the B17 (or if they prefer springs, the Flyer) works best for them instead of the narrower saddles that I prefer.

I can't comment on other brands, I have not used a different brand saddle for a couple of decades.

CORRECTION. I make a correction above a day after I wrote it.

COBikeLover

That surprises me 100+km's a day on a "mountain bike" on B67. I was doing similar and since I changed over to the flyer I couldn't be happier. There are aspects I did like about the B67 for complete upright position but overall for combined positions, I just couldn't find the same comfort.

COBikeLover

Completely agree.

COBikeLover

I look at a tons of images of bike setups now and kind of gravitate towards looking at how folks setup their bikes for long distance. I am actually surprised by the amount of pictures I have seen that more people aren't actually using the Flyer more. Not quite sure why because I would think folks look for max comfort at high miles, and I would think this would be just a logical trade off. But when you keep looking over tons of setups, I just don't see this being reality on most setups at all.

Tourist in MSN

Flyer is heavier than the B17, a lot of people are quite weight conscious. And the springs are pretty stiff so it does not give you that Cadilac ride, instead it makes the potholes slightly more tolerable. An individuals weight is also a factor, the lighter you are the less you depress teh springs so a pretty light rider might not even notice the difference between the sprung and unsprung saddles. I weigh about 180 pounds and I am not as concerned about light weight as most, thus I put up with the additional weight for the slight gain for springs. On a rough chip seal road the springs might smooth it out a bit too.

When I did mountain biking on my expedition bike with a Flyer, I also used a suspension fork and a suspension seatpost, but there is no rear suspension on that bike.

COBikeLover

I didn't think people that are fully weighted down would really care that much about the weight of springs, but had thought about this being the reason. Just doesn't seem like that much of a difference when you are weighted down for the trade off.

Hasn't been my experience at all. I do a lot of off and on riding with about a 70/30 split and I am riding all kinds of different stuff here in the foothills of Colorado. When I am riding off road, I notice a huge difference in the vibration in my bum when hitting things on a frequent basis and I don't have rear suspension. I am not claiming it does anything like rear supsension, but when you are riding on a fireroad for a while, you will notice a difference between this seat vs. non springs. Pot holes are just a bonus.

Not my experience at all at 160lbs as noted above.

I am on a hybrid right now with it, eventually hoping to get on a Surly DT with the same seat. I actually thought of doing the B17 with a Thudbuster or something similar but ended up going this route first. I figured if I didn't like the Flyer, this would be my next try.

COBikeLover

After a couple of more days riding on this seat, if anyone finds this post at a later time and debating about the same thing...I would STRONGLY encourage getting a Flyer before getting a B67 for long distance riding if cost is a determining factor for you on which one to get up front, and you don't have enough experience or understanding with "fully upright" position versus other positions, which the B67 is definitely more for. If you find out that you would still want the wider seat "after" the Flyer, you can always go that route a little later when you are ready. But getting stuck with a wider seat up front that is clearly not meant for long rides in general (and very difficult to return Brooks seats in general), noted the exceptions that do speak about them, you are better off the Flyer route if your troubled by costs and don't want to end up with a hurting bum if you are wrong until you can fix the problem.

If you are still really unsure, you can always go the Brook B17 route with a suspension seat like mentioned in an early post, but that was more than twice the cost of just the seat up front and not an option for me at the time.

This post is more for cost conscious or folks working inside budgets and you don't have the luxury of making the mistakes up front like many others can.

Happy Feet

With your admitted limited experience in this matter why are you so gung ho on trying to tell other people what to do?

It has been explained a couple of times now. The correct procedure would be to figure out what bike you have (not too hard) and what posture you will ride in based on your bar/saddle height before you select a saddle. The B67 is as much for long distance riding as any other saddle given the correct application.Telling someone to get a flyer or B17 first i s just more misguided advice so why bother.

You have learned the wrong lesson from your experience. Saddles are just saddles. People need to think about their posture and purpose a bit before buying them and not buy this one or that one blindly, hoping for the best.

As for there not being much information. Come on. One of the most common threads in all of these forums is "which saddle should I buy?" Ask about a B67 in any of them and someone will tell you they are for upright postures.

Abu Mahendra

In general, the wider the saddle, the more upright the sitting stance. Wide and sprung? You best be sitting near upright.

COBikeLover

That's a funny statement. I learned the "wrong lesson" from my own experience. Sincerely doubt that is for you to judge, but thanks.

No, actually I am talking to the "other" 99% of the world food chain that doesn’t have the luxury of “trying” things out and may be making a decision under the gun based off limited finances. Much of the advice given in these forums are geared towards the 1% financially and in the top 1% of the technology food chain as well. Many folks don’t have the luxury, resources, research skills, or even the ability to effectively communicate with audiences easily, and if you needed to make a decision in days and “not” already a member of this forum, it’s a nightmare trying to get past the original posting requirements to communicate effectively enough to ask more questions. And walking into a bicycle shop and getting sincere and unbiased information without a fist full of dollars is just about impossible from my experience. Since this forum now comes up as #1 in most google searches for bicycle related questions, and many of those folks are only going to see the thread and not bother participating or knowing how to effectively…this advice is for "those" people.

But thanks for trying to insist that my own reality and experience isn't real somehow which circles back around to your first question. To further answer your first question, because I think ahead a lot and often my motives and actions are with intent to help others, not to be "I know best."

I am quite confident in my own research and experience to make this statement. I clearly have said "if" you have to make a decision with limited experience, this is the best route on limited finances and doesn't have the luxury that others posting have with bicycles. It was meant for google searches not for the forum. The more participation in the thread, even the more controversy, the more educated decision someone can then make for themselves that have the ability to critically think better than others and decipher and discern information properly as well...if you really want to truly know my thinking instead of folks keep making assumptions about what I am doing. If you really want to know, you can always just ask me also. It's easier that way

Happy Feet

Well not really. The springs don't effect posture.

Where the B67 gives a problem is when using drop bars or aeros where you shift your posture from hoods/flats to drops. The saddle cradles you more than a B17 so when you drop down in posture the nose digs into the groin more so. For an expedition style tourer that has a semi upright position using flat or trekking bars you don't shift postures the same way and can dial in the sweet spot for the B67. To say one is better than the other is to not recognize the different postures that occur in sport type touring bikes and trekking/expedition type bikes.

That was in response to the spring issue.

Co. you really don't know who your talking to. If anyone on this forum advocates budget touring and second hand builds to save money it's me. I save for a long time to buy stuff so I try to read a bit about it first - hence I know a bit about saddles. Your experience is not wrong - just the conclusions you have drawn from them. If budget is important the lesson should be to do some research before buying an expensive saddle, not blindly recommending one over the other to people you don't know.

52telecaster

I think the b67 is almost too lightly sprung.

BigAura

Yep, that's true...and the view is nice

Happy Feet

Here's a pic that tells a story.

This was taken when a friend and I did a 3 day mixed surface trip. You can look at the height of the seat compared to bars and resulting postures to see why each bike has a different saddle. He is 25 years younger than me and I can't bend like that no more

He was faster on pavement, we were even on the Coquihalla summit hill because I have far lower gearing, I was faster on the loose gravel. On day two we did 227km's. Different saddles, different bikes with different postures, same ride.

And my bike does not really look "Posh" by any stretch of the imagination.

COBikeLover

I am actually kind of baffled about how many people like to insist others are wrong. I spent significant time researching these saddles without requesting opinions. There is not a lot of information available for the subject, given the parameters I was working with. Is a B67 good for touring with? Based on the limited amount of information available to google searches on the subject, and what does come up is dated in general depending on what your search terms words you use, again, there is not a lot of good information on the subject for someone to really understand that is ignorant to the subject prior to it.

Again, the thread is for future population and content for people to have more practical information at their fingertips to make a more informed decision for themselves. I could care less about the impact it is having at the moment...intent is so there is a thread to build on, not to be the "higher and mighty."

I am speaking to someone who is in my shoes later and needs information that I needed at the time and not available.

And if you really want to know the truth on the Brooks saddle...I have been on two of them now for the last two months...a B67 and now a Flyer, putting in about 50 miles a day average. Not completely impressed for all the research, recommendations, and conversation surrounding it to date. If I had the funds, I would keep shopping around and trying different saddles rather than stay stuck with this one now. Perhaps I fell for the hype...but it is still too early as I probably only have a couple of hundred miles on this Flyer.

COBikeLover

That's a great setup! That's pretty much about exactly what I had in mind with a build eventually, just different bars like Jones H-Bars that are on my bike now or Trekking bars. I prefer to be upright as well. I just couldn't get the saddle to work with my leg where the extra width hits the bottom of the buttock cheek. With that many miles, even with Chamios Buttr and spandex, I couldn't stop a saddle sore from happening when putting on 100 kilometers on a regular basis.

I really like the upright position and was for the most part comfortable on the B67. If I was doing around town kind of thing on a regular basis, under 30 miles, or had a great cruiser, I would put it back on my bike for sure. I just couldn't get it to work with that many miles no matter how long I spent trying to get the right adjustment. I don't get down on the bars either anymore unless I am on a downhill and just trying to kill resistance or pick up speed anyway.

I really wanted the B67 to work out for me for the amount of hours I spend on a bike riding each day.

Happy Feet

Ok. Believe it or not I'm actually trying to work with you here by providing a way to think about selecting a saddle based on more than looking at pictures or winging it. You say you want a thread that offers information for future people on limited budgets who need a better way to make a decision and that's what I have tried to provide. That is in contrast to just saying "Instead of defaulting to a B67, default to a B17 or flyer instead." That doesn't really help anyone learn about the issues at play that may influence the decision. Being on a limited budget only increases the need to do such research. Thinking is free

Just to add some more info.

Someone in an above post said that everyone's butt is different. That is true. Mostly the saddle issue revolves around the sit bones or Ischial Tuberosities and the need to determine whether a wide or narrow saddle is right for you. There are youtube videos and websites that tell one how to DIY measure that sit bone distance and many shops have devices that will measure it as well. A "Specialized" dealer will probably have a gel board you sit on that gives you a number that corresponds to their own number system for saddles. I did this (for free) and came up with a "143" measure which is actually on the narrow side. That was surprising because I have quite wide hips but I guess that is muscle and not sit bone width. Though that number is proprietary you can also just measure the gap in mm's to compare across brands as well. Why does this matter?

Because just buying any old B17 may not fit your sit bones very well and you may wind up buying yet a third expensive seat. The B17 standard is 176mm wide while a B17 narrow is 151mm wide. The Team Pro is 160mm. The B67 by contrast is 205mm. Prospective buyers should be told that sort of thing so they can measure their sit bones and buy the correct saddle first time out and Brooks does exactly that on their website.

You can also define the search further by determining whether you are a large rider or petite, as most Brooks models come in mens/womens or large/small versions which mainly reflects saddle width or length. Even the C series, which is basically a rubberized B17 saddle, comes in C13, C15, C17 and C19 versions to reflect varying sizes and riding posture.

Trevtassie

Or you could buy a Gyes instead, work out which saddle suits you, then buy a Brooks equivalent (or not since Gyes are a damn good saddle) I've got a GS-09 that's like a lounge chair, I'd prefer to sit on it compared to a hard park bench. But it's designed for an upright position, wide ass and narrow nose and made to be tilted back. I've used it with butterflies, crazy bars and Jones.

COBikeLover

@happyfeet...Awesome! Thank you!!!!

COBikeLover

Gyes Saddles I didn't even know about these...Whooa...that's a lot of spring seats!

COBikeLover

The other thing I will add now that I have a few more miles on the Flyer is that there is a drastic difference in the "breaking in" time or duration from one to the other. I probably had 800 miles on the B67 before I got rid of it and it was still pretty hard. The flyer literally began to "drop" on me, guess I would compare it to a "hammock" feel sort of. The flyer is much softer, breaking in much faster, and setting up into that "hammock feel" or whatever the term might be that is foreign to me is happening much much faster on The Flyer and with lower miles than the B67. It almost feels like it needs to be tightened already, but that is another completely different learning curve I am about to embark on.

boomhauer

This has been my experience almost exactly.
Not exactly sure what this is about but my B67 seems to have harder leather and the Flyer has softer leather.
I've done 1500 mile tours on both so I do have experience.