Brakes - where do you stand?
#26
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I have bikes with both. At this stage, I prefer rim brakes. Maybe because I've had them all along, they are intuitive and simple to keep in proper adjustment. Rim brake maintenance is a mystery to me. My shop insists that my disc brakes are adjusted properly, but I hate having to pull the lever almost all the way to the bar before I start getting stopping action. I don't know how to adjust the levers so that I only have to slightly pull before the brakes start working.
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I'm not sure whether it's an age thing or a preferred status on bike design but I just can't get used to bikes transitioning from rim brakes to disc brakes. I am old school and have a passion for vintage steele but I also love a sleek, aerodynamic new carbon bike as well. I just don't see any sex appeal in a disc brake. I know they are superior in performance to rims, especially for serious riders who ride mountains or ride in less than ideal conditions like rain or snow but that doesn't change my opinion. When I see them, I see a mountain bike.
I can swipe through image after image of beautiful vintage racing bikes from the 70's and 80's with their bright colours and chrome forks thinking of the Tour De France coverage we used to watch on the Wide World of Sports.
Ahh, caught me reminiscing again.
I can swipe through image after image of beautiful vintage racing bikes from the 70's and 80's with their bright colours and chrome forks thinking of the Tour De France coverage we used to watch on the Wide World of Sports.
Ahh, caught me reminiscing again.
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It still amazes me how the cycling set is so adverse to progress. I remember in the 80s when click shifting came out, the "real" cyclist resisted it too.
#31
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Have been riding 1 bike with rim brakes F/R, 1 bike with rim front/disc rear, and 1 bike with disc front/rim rear. The last bike is out of commission. New bike with disc brakes F/R is on order.
I'm too sexy for my brakes!
I'm too sexy for my brakes!
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But, for many, who simply don't run on the raggedy edge of performance, or who don't get impacted by wet rim effects, and who don't want the increased costs and complexity, it's hard to see practical improvements that are claimed by a platform.
Many will be in those areas of use where there'll be actual, practical improvement and elimination of issues. Great option, for them. Don't begrudge options for folks, in the least.
For others, and I happen to be one, I have simply never pushed hard enough, nor required utterly dry rims in my type of riding, and I've not thought the adjustability + simplicity + cost calculus was ever a bad thing with cantilevers or v-brakes. So, "progress" is relative. It's a change, no doubt. But it's just another option, with its own mix of traits, not all of which make it a slam-dunk combination for all folks.
Comparing automobiles, going from drum brakes and undersized bias-ply tires on 4500lb vehicles to disc brakes "serious" radials on 3000lb vehicles was a revelation. If/when cycling brakes make such a vast improvement, like that, that it's impossible to ignore, I'll be all ears.
Last edited by Clyde1820; 08-02-20 at 12:50 AM.
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#33
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I love the look of vintage bikes too. You'll notice in my bike list I have one from the 70's and one from the 90's. I have no issue with rim brakes too, they've always stopped me in time even in wet. The newer double pivot shimano 105, ultegra and dura ace brakes are even better than the rim brakes of old vintage days.
When looking for my first new bike in 41 years, I started out saying I didn't want discs and found bikes in the models I wanted without them. But before pulling the trigger on the purchase I got to thinking how some of the other older bike tech I liked that went by the wayside, though still available, there isn't a very good selection nor has it had any significant updating since it went by the wayside.
So since it will be likely I'll change wheels at some point on my new bike, I thought I'd want to make certain I'll have a good selection of choices by biting the bullet and going to disc brakes.
For me, I've had no issues in the 1090 miles I've put on the bike since new. At first I didn't think they stopped as well, but after 100 or so miles they will stop me very quick even in wet.
When looking for my first new bike in 41 years, I started out saying I didn't want discs and found bikes in the models I wanted without them. But before pulling the trigger on the purchase I got to thinking how some of the other older bike tech I liked that went by the wayside, though still available, there isn't a very good selection nor has it had any significant updating since it went by the wayside.
So since it will be likely I'll change wheels at some point on my new bike, I thought I'd want to make certain I'll have a good selection of choices by biting the bullet and going to disc brakes.
For me, I've had no issues in the 1090 miles I've put on the bike since new. At first I didn't think they stopped as well, but after 100 or so miles they will stop me very quick even in wet.
#34
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Brakes - where do I stand?
Simple. I want brakes such that - if I stand on them I don't go over the handlebars. IE - not phenomenal amounts of power.
Now, I am old-school. I was taught about a decade and a half before Lance Armstrong and TREK (when we still had brake cables) that anytime the visibility was challenged or either the road surface or riding conditions were "iffy" I was to have my hands in the drops; that my bikes were to be setup so I could ride the drops anytime needed,. I also grew up in the days of brake you really squeezed if you wanted to stop (or stomped if you were driving). Willys Jeep. Peugeot UO-8. '71 VW bus. I was 35 before I had power anything on a vehicle.
I set my good bike up with dual pivots. Never felt like I had good, trustworthy braking. Next custom was a fix gear intended for mountain riding, Bought some used levers with enormous hoods and set them up with dual pivots because good Shimano dual pivot in perfect condition could be had cheap. Turned out those huge levers were V-brake levers! Rode a long mountain descent with the combo, scared at first because by now I knew I had the brakes set up "wrong". Well half way down, I came into a steep corner, much sharper than anything I'd seen and way too sharp to pedal at the speed I was going. (Remember, fix gear!) Did the big adreniline fueled grab of both levers. No restraint! And nothing happened except I slowed a lot very quickly. No skid, no light rear end, just slowing. Made the corner easily with pedal clearance to spare.
I was sold. V-brake levers and dual pivots are it if you brake from the drops and have the hand either strength or size (and can reach those big levers although since the levers travel very little, they can be "cheated" in a lot and still have plenty of travel to spare. Now, only my Mafac Racer rain bikes and one sidepull bike have regular levers. All my dual pivots and my canti bike have V-brake levers. And as far as disc or rim? Given what you just read, why would I mess with disc? (New bikes? The only "new" bikes I'll be getting will be either custom or old/vintage frames for build. Avoiding disc will be easy.
Ben
Now, I am old-school. I was taught about a decade and a half before Lance Armstrong and TREK (when we still had brake cables) that anytime the visibility was challenged or either the road surface or riding conditions were "iffy" I was to have my hands in the drops; that my bikes were to be setup so I could ride the drops anytime needed,. I also grew up in the days of brake you really squeezed if you wanted to stop (or stomped if you were driving). Willys Jeep. Peugeot UO-8. '71 VW bus. I was 35 before I had power anything on a vehicle.
I set my good bike up with dual pivots. Never felt like I had good, trustworthy braking. Next custom was a fix gear intended for mountain riding, Bought some used levers with enormous hoods and set them up with dual pivots because good Shimano dual pivot in perfect condition could be had cheap. Turned out those huge levers were V-brake levers! Rode a long mountain descent with the combo, scared at first because by now I knew I had the brakes set up "wrong". Well half way down, I came into a steep corner, much sharper than anything I'd seen and way too sharp to pedal at the speed I was going. (Remember, fix gear!) Did the big adreniline fueled grab of both levers. No restraint! And nothing happened except I slowed a lot very quickly. No skid, no light rear end, just slowing. Made the corner easily with pedal clearance to spare.
I was sold. V-brake levers and dual pivots are it if you brake from the drops and have the hand either strength or size (and can reach those big levers although since the levers travel very little, they can be "cheated" in a lot and still have plenty of travel to spare. Now, only my Mafac Racer rain bikes and one sidepull bike have regular levers. All my dual pivots and my canti bike have V-brake levers. And as far as disc or rim? Given what you just read, why would I mess with disc? (New bikes? The only "new" bikes I'll be getting will be either custom or old/vintage frames for build. Avoiding disc will be easy.
Ben
#35
Senior Member
I much prefer tried and proven rim brakes for their easy service. The last thing I want is to deal with hydraulic fluid. Rim brakes give me more stopping power then I'll ever need and are easy to modulate.
That said It my be my next bike of choice may only be available with disc brakes. If I can't find what I want without them, I may have to go with disc. If I can get mechanical disc all the better.
My comfort bike has 26 x1.95" tires", Rim brakes, 9 " things" on the handlebars, a rack and trunk bag, reflectors and lights, and handlebars that are 8" Above the seat. So as you can see, I could care less about either fashion or modern technology... And I love it.
That said It my be my next bike of choice may only be available with disc brakes. If I can't find what I want without them, I may have to go with disc. If I can get mechanical disc all the better.
My comfort bike has 26 x1.95" tires", Rim brakes, 9 " things" on the handlebars, a rack and trunk bag, reflectors and lights, and handlebars that are 8" Above the seat. So as you can see, I could care less about either fashion or modern technology... And I love it.
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Again-----------get used to disc brakes. That is what mfg are going to.
And disc brakes have two great things going for them. First they work great in the wet, and second they do not scab up and finally wear out expensive rims.
And disc brakes have two great things going for them. First they work great in the wet, and second they do not scab up and finally wear out expensive rims.
Last edited by rydabent; 09-16-20 at 10:21 AM.
#37
Recusant Iconoclast
I've driven paddle-shift versions of my car, yet I'll stick to my stick shift as for me it's far more enjoyable. For me. And it's got nothing to do with aversion to progress.
#38
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I prefer brakes that stop the bike. After that it’s whatever comes with the bike in which I’m interested. The only caveat is that if there are disc brakes I prefer hydraulic.
#39
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You ride in that environment, you learn how to avoid that problem. As it was said before, tire traction was a much bigger issue.
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You can have my rim brakes when you pry them out of my cold, dead hands.
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#41
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I think it's debatable still whether disc brakes are the natural evolution for braking. Just like carbon frames over steel, electronic shifting over mechanical, lots of folks prefer the traditional technology and yet not adverse at all to "progress."
I've driven paddle-shift versions of my car, yet I'll stick to my stick shift as for me it's far more enjoyable. For me. And it's got nothing to do with aversion to progress.
I've driven paddle-shift versions of my car, yet I'll stick to my stick shift as for me it's far more enjoyable. For me. And it's got nothing to do with aversion to progress.
That is actually what the OP seems... to be asking anyways...
#42
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SA Drum brakes have been around 90 years I guess. My TRP Spyre disc on my Rohloff will stop on a dime, but drums are still the BEST. 100% reliable, predictable, weatherproof, safe because they mostly won't lock up, silly easy to dismount the wheel, pads last forever and NO adjustments. My XL-FDD has gone 2 tours and over 20,000 miles with no cable change either. LOL. Heating it up is a laughable concept. LOL. Nothing looks better either, IMO.
Who the hell needs hydro?? LOL
I only still have 1 caliper g-rim brake now on my CCM, because the fork is less than 100 mm.
Disc pads last about 6,000 miles. I just had to order them from Europe, resin ones.
Who the hell needs hydro?? LOL
I only still have 1 caliper g-rim brake now on my CCM, because the fork is less than 100 mm.
Disc pads last about 6,000 miles. I just had to order them from Europe, resin ones.
Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 08-02-20 at 07:55 PM.
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#43
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SA Drum brakes have been around 90 years I guess. My TRP Spyre disc on my Rohloff will stop on a dime, but drums are still the BEST. 100% reliable, predictable, weatherproof, safe because they mostly won't lock up, silly easy to dismount the wheel, pads last forever and NO adjustments. My XL-FDD has gone 2 tours and over 20,000 miles with no cable change either. LOL. Heating it up is a laughable concept. LOL. Nothing looks better either, IMO.
Who the hell needs hydro?? LOL
I only still have 1 caliper g-rim brake now on my CCM, because the fork is less than 100 mm.
Disc pads last about 6,000 miles. I just had to order them from Europe, resin ones.
Who the hell needs hydro?? LOL
I only still have 1 caliper g-rim brake now on my CCM, because the fork is less than 100 mm.
Disc pads last about 6,000 miles. I just had to order them from Europe, resin ones.
Seems like 2 votes for anything but rim brakes so far...
Last edited by 350htrr; 08-03-20 at 08:44 AM. Reason: spelling
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#45
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I have 3 road bikes all using alloy rims:
1) 1982 Peugeot CFX-10 Dura Ace 7800 rim brakes. So much better than the circa 1980 brakes they replaced.
2) 2015 Ritchey Breakaway Campagnolo Super Record Skeleton brakes. Probably better than the Dura Ace. Got the SR because The Pro's Closet had a set for cheap.
3) 2017 Lynskey R350 Campagnolo Record Skeleton brakes. Bought them new, so I bought Record because I am cheap. Every bit as good as the SR, but they weigh a few grams more.
All are very good. I have no issues in the wet with these since the fronts are all dual pivot and can easily overwhelm the tire traction in the wet.
1 Tandem
1) Ritchey Breakaway Double Switchback: Hope V4 (MTB down hill) disk brakes with 203 mm rotors. Started with the E4 ("Enduro"). They faded in a 45 MPH panic stop. Bad! I wouldn't even dream of putting rim brakes on that big sled, except in a very bad nightmare: the kind where you pull on the brake lever and NOTHING happens as you hurtle towards a cliff or wall . The V4s are wonderful. With the vented rotor in the rear they can regulate down hill speed and the front can bring us to a stop in a hurry. Great modulation and so far plenty of power, even with 450 pounds of riders and gear to stop. When I pack the tandem in the cases I take the brakes off and put spacers in the calipers. Before we fly with the bike I bleed the brakes to make sure I have good clean fluid in them. Bleeding Hope brakes is easy. I use a vacuum pump to pull fresh fluid through the brakes. Haven't had to bleed them yet when I assemble the bike at our destination.
1 Mountain bike
1) 2016 Lynskey hard tail. This is where the Hope E4 brakes wound up. On this bike they are marvelous. This bike is the winter commuter, as well as a trail bike all year. The Hopes are superb at dealing with water and ice, and they don't have cables to freeze up with ice and slush when the temperature is just a little below freezing. And since they are disks I have never had an issue with rims being caked with ice and failing to stop.
N+1 will be a fat tire bike, and it will absolutely have hydraulic disk brakes, probably Hope, but definitely DoT fluid since I suspect the viscosity of mineral oil will be an issue in sub-zero F temperatures. Possibly N+2 will be a touring bike. Something that has hydraulic disk brakes and a coupled frame. Maybe if I can find a Ritchey Breakaway Outback at a bargain price. Disk all the way. Also DoT fluid since that is what you can get in remote places if there is a problem.
So where do I stand:
Rim brakes are fine on a road bike that is not a fully loaded touring bike which is ridden in above freezing weather. For the heavy duty applications, I want disks. Hydraulic disks that are easy to bleed and which use DoT 3/4 or 5.1 fluid that I can get anywhere in the world.
1) 1982 Peugeot CFX-10 Dura Ace 7800 rim brakes. So much better than the circa 1980 brakes they replaced.
2) 2015 Ritchey Breakaway Campagnolo Super Record Skeleton brakes. Probably better than the Dura Ace. Got the SR because The Pro's Closet had a set for cheap.
3) 2017 Lynskey R350 Campagnolo Record Skeleton brakes. Bought them new, so I bought Record because I am cheap. Every bit as good as the SR, but they weigh a few grams more.
All are very good. I have no issues in the wet with these since the fronts are all dual pivot and can easily overwhelm the tire traction in the wet.
1 Tandem
1) Ritchey Breakaway Double Switchback: Hope V4 (MTB down hill) disk brakes with 203 mm rotors. Started with the E4 ("Enduro"). They faded in a 45 MPH panic stop. Bad! I wouldn't even dream of putting rim brakes on that big sled, except in a very bad nightmare: the kind where you pull on the brake lever and NOTHING happens as you hurtle towards a cliff or wall . The V4s are wonderful. With the vented rotor in the rear they can regulate down hill speed and the front can bring us to a stop in a hurry. Great modulation and so far plenty of power, even with 450 pounds of riders and gear to stop. When I pack the tandem in the cases I take the brakes off and put spacers in the calipers. Before we fly with the bike I bleed the brakes to make sure I have good clean fluid in them. Bleeding Hope brakes is easy. I use a vacuum pump to pull fresh fluid through the brakes. Haven't had to bleed them yet when I assemble the bike at our destination.
1 Mountain bike
1) 2016 Lynskey hard tail. This is where the Hope E4 brakes wound up. On this bike they are marvelous. This bike is the winter commuter, as well as a trail bike all year. The Hopes are superb at dealing with water and ice, and they don't have cables to freeze up with ice and slush when the temperature is just a little below freezing. And since they are disks I have never had an issue with rims being caked with ice and failing to stop.
N+1 will be a fat tire bike, and it will absolutely have hydraulic disk brakes, probably Hope, but definitely DoT fluid since I suspect the viscosity of mineral oil will be an issue in sub-zero F temperatures. Possibly N+2 will be a touring bike. Something that has hydraulic disk brakes and a coupled frame. Maybe if I can find a Ritchey Breakaway Outback at a bargain price. Disk all the way. Also DoT fluid since that is what you can get in remote places if there is a problem.
So where do I stand:
Rim brakes are fine on a road bike that is not a fully loaded touring bike which is ridden in above freezing weather. For the heavy duty applications, I want disks. Hydraulic disks that are easy to bleed and which use DoT 3/4 or 5.1 fluid that I can get anywhere in the world.
#46
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This! I ride on flat roads so either brake type will work for me. However, I think rim brakes are a lot cleaner looking.
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#47
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As an older fellow, I like disc brakes because they require much less effort to stop and also allow the use of much larger tires. Moving from 23 mm tires to a 30 does not seem like a lot but man is it more comfortable!
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I hope you dont mind my saying so, but you to seem to resist progress. Stick shift??? Direct shift and 8-9-10 speed automatics are faster and get better mileage.
Back to bikes. As I have posted discs have several things going for them. Discs do not scab up expensive rims and finally wear them out. Rims for disc brake bikes can be ligher, stronger, and more aero. And lastly disc work better in the wet.
Back to bikes. As I have posted discs have several things going for them. Discs do not scab up expensive rims and finally wear them out. Rims for disc brake bikes can be ligher, stronger, and more aero. And lastly disc work better in the wet.
Last edited by rydabent; 08-11-20 at 11:43 AM.
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I hope you dont mind my saying so, but you to seem to resist progress. Stick shift??? Direct shift and 8-9-10 speed automatics are faster and get better mileage.
Back to bikes. As I have posted discs have several things going for them. Discs do not scab up rims and finally wear them out. Rims for disc brake bikes can be ligher, stronger, and more aero. And lastly disc work better in the wet.
Back to bikes. As I have posted discs have several things going for them. Discs do not scab up rims and finally wear them out. Rims for disc brake bikes can be ligher, stronger, and more aero. And lastly disc work better in the wet.
And tor relate this to bikes. Yes, I do still ride DT shifters by choice. On all my geared bikes. 3 X 9 on the floor (where it belongs).
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 08-11-20 at 02:03 PM.
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