Tips for Getting Lower Gears (price to benefit)
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Tips for Getting Lower Gears (price to benefit)
I’m building up a new frameset with an 11-sp 105 drivetrain I have on hand, the max cassette range on the lowest gear is, I believe 32. With my 34 small front chain ring I’m a little hampered in getting easier gears up big hills. What is an economical way to upgrade to get more gears on the low end?
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Can your crankset fit a smaller ring? If so that's likely the lowest cost method to reduce gear ratios. If not than the cost grow very quickly. Andy (who runs x3 cranks on most of his bikes to get BOTH low gears and reasonably small gaps between the ratios)
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Apart from using a triple crank with friction shifters, you could use an 11-speed Shimano MTB cassette (36 or more teeth on the largest sprocket) combined with an RD hanger extender if needed, to enable the RD to work with larger sprockets.
That's exactly what we did with my friend's bike and it works very well:
That's exactly what we did with my friend's bike and it works very well:
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I would avoid having to use a hanger extender (Wolf Tooth as example) as it will increase the amount of open chain between the cassette and the guide pulley IN ALL COGS. Often resulting in loss of shifting response when riding in the smaller cogs. One of the goals of Shimano using the slant pantograph parallelogram, a spring loaded B pivot and a pulley cage with the guide pulley axis offset from the cage pivot was to minimize this amount of open chain.
If you get a chance read "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto. He describes (among other things) the design elements that ders have used over the years and why some survived to today and why other elements lost out and left the market. Andy
If you get a chance read "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto. He describes (among other things) the design elements that ders have used over the years and why some survived to today and why other elements lost out and left the market. Andy
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I would avoid having to use a hanger extender (Wolf Tooth as example) as it will increase the amount of open chain between the cassette and the guide pulley IN ALL COGS. Often resulting in loss of shifting response when riding in the smaller cogs. One of the goals of Shimano using the slant pantograph parallelogram, a spring loaded B pivot and a pulley cage with the guide pulley axis offset from the cage pivot was to minimize this amount of open chain.
If you get a chance read "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto. He describes (among other things) the design elements that ders have used over the years and why some survived to today and why other elements lost out and left the market. Andy
If you get a chance read "The Dancing Chain" by Frank Berto. He describes (among other things) the design elements that ders have used over the years and why some survived to today and why other elements lost out and left the market. Andy
My preferred course of action would be to use triple cranks, 7-8 speed cassette and friction shifters. It is quite budget, and an extra benefit is greater rear-wheel strength compared to 11-speed road bike wheels with the same OLD.
What you suggested is probably a better option - though I'm not 100% sure if it's cheaper (availability of parts and all). I suppose that switching from say 50-34 to a 46-30 double would probably work fine with the existing FD (it will have to be moved just a little bit lower).
But the above-described option is what my friend and I did on a budget (what was available at the time) and seems to work well.
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Evaluate the range of gearing you need. Do you need the high ratio of the 50 front and 11 or 12 rear cogs? If not then look for a crankset with smaller rings altogether. A 32/48 or something there'bouts.
32 front and 32 rear will give you the same low gear as a 34 front and 34 rear.
However, depending your your series of 105 11 speed DR you might actually be in spec for a 34 tooth cog. RD-R7000-GS and you are good. RD-5800-GS and the spec says 32 max. If you have the 5800, then buying a R7000-GS might not cost too much more than the wolf tooth extender will.
Ride lots and long and those currently not quite low enough ratio gears will get easier without having to change them out.
32 front and 32 rear will give you the same low gear as a 34 front and 34 rear.
However, depending your your series of 105 11 speed DR you might actually be in spec for a 34 tooth cog. RD-R7000-GS and you are good. RD-5800-GS and the spec says 32 max. If you have the 5800, then buying a R7000-GS might not cost too much more than the wolf tooth extender will.
Ride lots and long and those currently not quite low enough ratio gears will get easier without having to change them out.
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I also needed lower gearing.
First in tried less teeth by replacing the chain rings.
That threw off the chainline and my FD would not adjust far enough to compensate.
So I purchased a R8050 GS (long cage) and a SRAM PG1170 11-36.
That, along with my 50-34, works great for me.
Barry
First in tried less teeth by replacing the chain rings.
That threw off the chainline and my FD would not adjust far enough to compensate.
So I purchased a R8050 GS (long cage) and a SRAM PG1170 11-36.
That, along with my 50-34, works great for me.
Barry
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I’m building up a new frameset with an 11-sp 105 drivetrain I have on hand, the max cassette range on the lowest gear is, I believe 32. With my 34 small front chain ring I’m a little hampered in getting easier gears up big hills. What is an economical way to upgrade to get more gears on the low end?
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#9
Must be symmetrical
I think the limiting factor might instead be how much chain the derailleur can wrap. If it cannot handle the whole wrap necessary, you may end up with some gears (big-big combinations) you can't shift into, but you shouldn't be shifting into those anyway.
#10
Must be symmetrical
Another thought, although I might be stating the obvious--going with a change on the cassette end can allow you to get an easier gear without affecting most of the other gear choices you have
Going to a smaller chainring will make all the gears (on that chainring) easier. Yes, you will still have the big ring to mash, but the entire range on the small ring with change.
So an important question is, do you want easier gearing in general or just one or two easier gears?
Going to a smaller chainring will make all the gears (on that chainring) easier. Yes, you will still have the big ring to mash, but the entire range on the small ring with change.
So an important question is, do you want easier gearing in general or just one or two easier gears?
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If your 105 crankset has a bcd of 110mm, you are stuck with that inner chainring.
You probably only have 2 choices.
Get a long cage road compatible RD, GRX?, that gets you to a cassette up to 40t. You’ll have capacity issues limiting how much of the cassette you can use in the small chain ring.
Use a Wolftooth RoadLink to get to 40t and maybe get a little worse shifting performance. You will still have capacity issues.
If you are struggling now, adding a couple of teeth isn’t going to make things that much easier. You need a significant change in the lowest gear.
It is just the way it is.
John
You probably only have 2 choices.
Get a long cage road compatible RD, GRX?, that gets you to a cassette up to 40t. You’ll have capacity issues limiting how much of the cassette you can use in the small chain ring.
Use a Wolftooth RoadLink to get to 40t and maybe get a little worse shifting performance. You will still have capacity issues.
If you are struggling now, adding a couple of teeth isn’t going to make things that much easier. You need a significant change in the lowest gear.
It is just the way it is.
John
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What are your gear inches?
Work out the math - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html.
On all my derailleur bikes I've had to upgrade and Sheldon Brown showed me the way,
Work out the math - https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html.
On all my derailleur bikes I've had to upgrade and Sheldon Brown showed me the way,
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I still remember riding and racing on my 11-23 and would occasionally change to the 12-25 for steep days. I tried a 12-27 and hated it, too low. Of course that was on a 53/39.
I can’t do that anymore.
I can’t do that anymore.
#16
Must be symmetrical
There are triple-izer chainrings, so adapters that have tabs into which a third chainring can mount. Availability is patchy, and depends on your BCD.
Your front derailleur might have the range necessary, even if it only rated for a double. Shimano sometimes economizes on things like that by building one version but selling several as something different (see: front and rear V Brakes).
You may run into a front shifter problem, but you could get a cheap Sunrace downtuber or bar end shifter for the front.
But there is a cascade of issues for almost every "solution". A real triple with a proper bail out ring may be worth the money.
Your front derailleur might have the range necessary, even if it only rated for a double. Shimano sometimes economizes on things like that by building one version but selling several as something different (see: front and rear V Brakes).
You may run into a front shifter problem, but you could get a cheap Sunrace downtuber or bar end shifter for the front.
But there is a cascade of issues for almost every "solution". A real triple with a proper bail out ring may be worth the money.
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OP is building an 11 speed drivetrain. None of that exists.
John
John
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Not that this solves the problem for Noonievut, but you don’t need to use friction shifters on a triple crank. I’ve put many, many, many miles on triples with STI shifters…even using mountain bike cranks. I do use a Shimano road triple derailer and make sure it’s one of the cheaper ones that Shimano offers. Those work better with triples.
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I would avoid having to use a hanger extender (Wolf Tooth as example) as it will increase the amount of open chain between the cassette and the guide pulley IN ALL COGS. Often resulting in loss of shifting response when riding in the smaller cogs. One of the goals of Shimano using the slant pantograph parallelogram, a spring loaded B pivot and a pulley cage with the guide pulley axis offset from the cage pivot was to minimize this amount of open chain.
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Not that this solves the problem for Noonievut, but you don’t need to use friction shifters on a triple crank. I’ve put many, many, many miles on triples with STI shifters…even using mountain bike cranks. I do use a Shimano road triple derailer and make sure it’s one of the cheaper ones that Shimano offers. Those work better with triples.
In terms of "price to benefit" (as well as in terms of robustness), I think friction shifters are hard to beat. Stll, for those who prefer indexed shifting, what you suggested is the way to go and it's a perfectly good solution.
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most economical wide-range rear derailleur for 10-4700 and 11 speed road shimano:
RD-RX400
it officially support up to 36T (unlike R7000/R8000/RX800 with 34T spec), it can also do 40T without hanger extender
it uses 4700 cable pull, that is compatible with 4700, 5800, R7000, 6800, R8000, 9000, R9100 drivetrains 10-11 speed
RD-RX400
it officially support up to 36T (unlike R7000/R8000/RX800 with 34T spec), it can also do 40T without hanger extender
it uses 4700 cable pull, that is compatible with 4700, 5800, R7000, 6800, R8000, 9000, R9100 drivetrains 10-11 speed
Last edited by kek; 02-12-22 at 02:31 AM.