rsbob 

Kapusta

Correct, it has a far more complicated throttle.

adlai

The real reason? Because mountain and hybrid bikes suck. But they're the most popular bikes. But the big tires and suspension and flat handlebars and the crappy gel seat actually isn't much fun to actually ride. But they're the default first choice.

Road bikes look uncomfortable but they're much better. You get much more distance per pedal output, and the drop bars distribute weight more evenly. But everyone thinks that you need an upright position and oodles of gel for an everyday bike.

But if you electrify the crappy mountain or hybrid bike it changes things. Suddenly it is more like a road bike. But you could have just gotten a road bike in the first place.

indyfabz

Cool story, bro.

big john

Good grief.

URCinelliIsFake

You never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator, and e-bikes are lowest common denominator.

livedarklions

I'm always struck in these conversations about how differently people view MUPs. The ones I ride on can safely accommodate 20+ mph speeds (I pedal that fast a lot). I occasionally see people riding like inconsiderate jerks, but generally they are far better behaved than people on the roads. And don't call.me a muppet or whatever, I ride several thousands of miles per year on roads. I see some roads I'd describe as the wild west, but no MUPs. That said, there's ones I won't ride on because they're really not designed for fast riding.

rsbob 

RE: how differently people see MUPs, I believe it is a function of being myopic. They only have experience with what they know and aren’t willing to widen their perspective

I also find it interesting how people may just read OP post and then skip all the excellent arguments for or against which may show their is a huge gray area, and then matter of factly say the answer is black or white. Period. Can’t fix lazy or highly opinionated.

indyfabz

+1. I was going to say that but was too lazy to write the post.

MUP conditions can even be markedly different on different days and at different times. On a nice Saturday afternoon, one MUP in and around Philly can be like I-95 at rush hour. On a Monday morning at 6:00 a.m. you will likely have the trail all (or nearly all) to yourself for multi-mile stretches. And that does not even get into long distance trails that are mostly rural, such as the GAP and the Mickelson.

livedarklions

Getting back to that, I think my perspective that ebikes really aren't a problem on paths may stem from the fact that I avoid paths where I can't ride fast. On a relatively straight, flat and well-paved rail trail, you almost have to try to be nasty to other people on the path. Even at high speed, you can see them from far enough to keep out of each other's way. To be honest, I don't think I've ever seen someone on an ebike posing any real problem on a rail trail. I have seen some hotshot wannabees do all kinds of close-passing and the like, sometimes of children, but fortunately, I only see that maybe 1-2 times per year, and it really stands out.

I had a really funny near miss last weekend when a woman with a huge leaf blower was working on the path. I slowed down to get around her and tried as best I could to announce my presence over the sound of the damn machine. I was passing behind her back, going pretty slow when I suddenly realized the machine was electric and there was a cord right in my path. She was emerged from a fairly wooded area, so it didn't even occur to me that there could be an outlet anywhere near her. I stopped with maybe about 2 inches to spare, both of us with really wide eyes at what almost happened. I honestly don't have any idea what she said to me, leaf blowers are really, really loud.

kayakindude

simply awesome

I have folders, tandems (one with assist), road bikes, and now electric Rad fat bikes. I enjoy each and every style and each one pedals. One is not better than the other for riding, the difference is how and where you use them. Ride responsibly and what you ride matters not. Try riding a 4 inch fat bike at level 1 PAS for 25 miles and then explain how it is lazy. My legs were hurting more from that 1st ride than much longer rides on the roadsters.

Camilo

I could have been more nuanced in my statement. I also have ridden faster than 15mph on MUPs (maybe 20, but I'm pretty slow). But that's only in appropriate places - where there's no other riders and/or very good sight lines and quiet enough for verbal communication when passing if need-be. What bothers me - and probably you - is when a more well used MUP has unreasonably fast riders on it. It happens sometimes with racer wannabees who should be on the road, but fast pedal riders like that are fairly uncommon on MUPs. But it's becoming more and more common by casual e-bike riders who can so easily too fast. Face it, the vast majority of MUP, casual, recreational bike riders go pretty slow, but not ebikes. It's just becoming more of an issue. FWIW, I only use MUPs when I have to and/or when they're pretty much clear of other users, riders, families, walkers, etc. I'm generally on the roads, gravel paths or MTB trails as appropriate.

livedarklions

No, I really don't see ebike riders being unreasonably fast on the crowded bits. I also see a lot of older people riding ebikes at 15 mph or less.

I see a lot of assertion about these really fast inconsiderate unskilled ebike riders for a few years now, but I'm not seeing that actually happening.

prj71

I saw it happening for the first time this year in a bunch of places I went.

People with low bike skill and low motivation to actually pedal and and physically exert themselves make up the largest users of e-bikes. And the scary thing is...It's mostly young people in their 20's, 30's 40s. Not the olds and physically handicapped. Basically people that would not have otherwise purchased a bike if they had to pedal without assistance.

rsbob 

I see many buyers of e-bikes as having a low level of fitness, and those bikes allow them to get out and rides as if they did.

livedarklions

This is pure garbage speculation on your part. Now you're just making up stuff about the skill and motivation of the "largest users of e-bikes" based on nothing other than your personal prejudices. You that good at reading minds, administering handling skills tests and doing physicals that you can support that assertion?

Again, I keep reading people making the mismatch between speed and skill assertion, I just don't see it happening in real life. I don't think learning to handle the bike even into the mid-20 mph range is that difficult. I think the e-bike riders I've seen are basically about the same as fast pedalfers.

And frankly, if it gets them out of their car, I really don't care whether they'd otherwise be buying a bike.

kayakindude

I have 20 and 24 inch folders, three tandems (one electric assist, another just a single speed),
two road bikes and now just added this beast


Each and every one of them is a blast to ride on and the fat bike definitely works the legs at PAS 1. Whether analog or electric they can all ride at similar speeds, just a matter of duration. Any of these could be ridden irresponsibly at a high speed on a bike path, but that's on the operator.

All I can say oh my the beast is fun to ride across different surfaces!

prj71

Making stuff up?!!! Oh hell no!!!

Saw it with my own two eyes up close and personal on rail trails and paved bike trails this summer. When someone is weaving all over the trail when you are coming up behind them, or cutting the corners wide when coming at you almost causing a collision...Definitely speaks volumes about their bike handling skills and awareness.

Physicals? C'mon be real. The majority of 20-40 somethings are in fine physical condition to pedal. Are there outliers? Sure. That's not the majority though.

livedarklions

Here's what you said:

"People with low bike skill and low motivation to actually pedal and and physically exert themselves make up the largest users of e-bikes. "

So your own personal observations are sufficient to determine the "largest users of e-bikes"? No, you definitely made that factoid up out of whole cloth.


You also described this group as "Basically people that would not have otherwise purchased a bike if they had to pedal without assistance." That's completely speculation stated as fact on your part..


I don't doubt you might have seen a couple of unskilled e-bike riders, I didn't say they don't exist. I haven't seen them despite riding a lot of miles in some very crowded situations, so I think they're the exceptional cases, not the all-pervasive threat people are trying to assert here.

rossiny

Yes the future is electric if they are on the road as commuters. I still think they should not be allowed on trails , I mean I thought the whole reason a biker goes on the trails is to not have to deal with motorized vehicles. I just saw sombody come in to my local bar with a "E-bike " after loosing their license to DUI. It looked like a Harley, tires were huge . They jump on it and go down the road easily was over 25mph. So we are saying your allowing this on a trail ?? Can you imagine your kid on a trail with this Electric Motorcycle?? Let's face it , how are they "assist", when you could never pedal this thing if the battery cuts out??
I'm all for E-bikes if they reduce the traffic from cars. In the USA, I don't see that happening. I could be wrong..

rossiny

All this talk about motion ,. Its anazing most other species of animals can migrate or hunt within a territory they can cover.Monarchs, humming birds, geese, wild horses, deer, Elk, Moose, etc, etc. Can cover vast amounts of territory. The human species has a bit of a problem lately , we need cars, jets, , . I guess if we has gone to E-bikes only that wouldn't be such a bad thing. Your actually moving your body without another 4000 pounds of metal and plastic, spewing out pollution. My question is what ever happened to the gas ⛽️ shortage , and pollution? Have those problems evaporated ??🤥 The only discussions I here now are political about whether global warming is real or not ?? 🤓