PeteHski

It's only a problem for the most cynical of posters and they deserve a bit of flak surely??

rudypyatt

The Sturmey three speeds aren’t unreasonably heavy, but people are used to thinking of hub gears on 50 pound Dutch bikes or old Raleigh Sports and other upright bikes. People just don’t think of them for other uses.

In that respect, regardless of how much (or how little) the Classified hub differs from the Sturmey system, Classified has done the right marketing push: Proving their hub in high performance applications. But everything old is new again…

By the way, the disc brake version of the Sturmey cassette hub will take an 11-34 cassette.

EDIT: Actually, all of their cassette hubs will. And you’re not limited to Sunrace (who owns Sturmey-Archer) cassettes.

PeteHski

Interesting thanks. I guess they're not massive FD fans either and hence looking for alternative solutions where feasible.

seypat

No, it goes against the board rules. It wouldn't be me, but you could get reported and a visit from a mod. Just a suggestion that has nothing to do with the content of the thread.

PeteHski

But presumably it's okay to call someone a "shill" or "snake oil salesman" just because they are being cynical? I don't really care. If someone wants to report me for having a little dig at the cynical people on this forum then they can go right ahead. I've about had enough of the forum cynicism anyway. It's everywhere at the moment for whatever reason - sign of the times maybe?

PeteHski

I agree definitely the same basic principle. Looks like Classified are bringing hub gearing into the high-performance market as a specific replacement for a conventional road 2x.

seypat

Yes, it's the choice of words. Replace the word you're using with people, etc or just use shills, cynics and you'll be ok. And, if you decide to exit, no need for an announcement.

PeteHski

BTW my passion for this is much less than you would think from this thread. I'm just interested in how bike drivetrains may progress in future. I don't ride my 2x road bike and get upset about the FD. But it would be quite nice to see them replaced with something inherently better. For me it's a toss up between hub gearing or 1x. I'm slightly favouring 1x for its simplicity and lower cost.

PeteHski

Are you happy now you are just being a plain "cynical person"?

tomato coupe

I think it was only one guy (Mads Pedersen) on Trek Segafredo that ran a 1x setup.

rudypyatt

It’s good to see. Frankly, Raleigh/Sturmey-Archer blew it back in the 1950s and early 1960s when they stopped developing club and racing hubs such as the AR, AC, AM, and FM. But the hybrid kits were available (I think) from at least the 1940s.

I love Sturmey three speeds; I have the SRF3 on both my bikes, one of which is only 20 pounds post-three speed conversion. If I ever get a bike with a rear derailleur, it’ll definitely be a 1x, probably with a Sturmey hub/cassette drive. In fact, with Classified raising the profile of the concept, I would not be surprised to see someone (BikesDirect for instance) catalog such a bike at a mass market/discount price.

msu2001la

That's not correct. Most, if not all of the Trek Segafredo team was on 1x this year. Women too.
They've been experimenting with 1x for 3-4 years at Roubaix. The bike in my earlier post is from 2019.






Lizzie Deignan won on 1x in 2021:
Lizzie Deignan's winning Paris-Roubaix bike | 1x, tubeless & discs - BikeRadar
"Trek-Segafredo women’s team opted for a 1x setup for Roubaix, pairing a 50-tooth front chainring (fitted with a Quarq power meter) with a 12-speed 10-33t cassette and SRAM’s wireless electronic Red eTap AXS rear derailleur. With the 116k Paris-Roubaix Femmes predominantly played out over flat roads, Deignan had little need for a front derailleur, though the British rider had a K-Edge chain catcher in place to provide some additional security over the harsh cobbles."

Elisa Longo Borgini won on 1x in 2022:
Longo Borghini's race-winning Trek Domane - 'The perfect bike for Paris-Roubaix' | Cyclingnews
"Elisa’s bike was set up as a 1x setup with a Sram Red AXS groupset, sporting a large 52-tooth front chainring, alongside what we expect was a 10-36 rear cassette."

tomato coupe

Yep, I think you're right. Mads was the loner at the beginning, but others on the team have now jumped on the train.

base2 

It is possible you both are correct.

The CS-RF3 & its disc brake brother CS-RK3 have the range of a triple & it's all in the rear hub. Reading between the lines of the spec sheet the lowest drive ratio is 1:1. So long as 1:1 is maintained the total range can be as many percent as you want.

Here is mine with a 1x narrow/wide 42 tooth chainring & 11-42 cassette & XTR Shadow+ derailleur. That's 20 to 140 gear inches with 700x38 tires. A final drive ratio of about 0.75:1 to 5:1 is ~680% range. I mated the hub to a Velocity A23 off-center rim for truly equal spoke tension.

Ritchey Ascent Breakaway by Richard Mozzarella, on Flickr

I've seen the system you two are bickering about. With out even considering the cost, the proprietary cassette is a hard no. The Sturmey can accept any cassette that'll fit on an 8,9,10 speed freehub body & the cost is the same $100-$200 you'd spend on a truly decent hub anyways.

Yes, the hub is a bit heavy. But, being a weight weenie myself, bikes today are fairly light. It wouldn't be hard to make such a bike in the 20-25 pound range with proper component selection. Hub weight difference of a single hub isn't likely to make a hurdle of 4-500 grams or so high it can't be overcome...Even if it mattered.

PeteHski

Yeah I only really mentioned Classified as an example of a contemporary alternative to a 2x FD before I was labelled as their top sales shill. Sturmey could be its Great Great Grandfather! I could live with a proprietary cassette, but limited wheelsets and cost of change would be my main barriers. That and 1x being feasible for my road riding.

rudypyatt

Elegant proof of concept which brings me back to my original thinking: Sturmey-Archer had this solved long ago. What Classified has is bling factor and marketing to the high performance crowd, something Sturmey-Archer can still do if they’re willing to make the effort. Being Sturmey-Archer, it won’t have the snob appeal of Shimano or Campagnolo or SRAM. But it’s clear their hybrid system works well.

PeteHski

Maybe it is too niche for SA to bother. l doubt hub gearing will become mainstream on performance road bikes until Shimano/SRAM/Campag get involved. It might never happen with 1x becoming more feasible. 1x13 is close to the tipping point for 2x becoming redundant.

rudypyatt

[QUOTE=PeteHski;22747979]Maybe it is too niche for SA to bother. l doubt hub gearing will become mainstream on performance road bikes until Shimano/SRAM/Campag get involved. It might never happen with 1x becoming more feasible. 1x13 is close to the tipping point for 2x becoming redundant.[/

I agree. SA, old as it is, doesn’t have the prestige the others have. That said, it’s the only hub gear I will ever ride; I am a very satisfied customer.

Ix13 would really be something.

Dean V

It really comes down to the rider and the terrain. I am happy with 1x11 for riding near my home but it wouldn't be my choice for properly mountainous terrain. It doesn't have the range and I don't like the weight or aesthetics of dinner plate size cassettes and long arm derailleurs.1x13 wouldn't solve that for me.

PeteHski

There's nothing in it on overall weight. Ekar 1x13 is one of the lightest groupsets around. I don't mind the aesthetics of larger cassettes, but they can be expensive.

6door74

Glad I found this topic. I've been debating riding an 8 speed State bike on a bike tour from NJ to DC next year. It's not a bikepacking tour with luggage and it's over the course of 4 days. The longest day will be approximately 100 miles and we stop about every 20-25 miles. I don't expect there will be any major climbing but we will have some rolling hills here and there.

The bike has 44t up front and 11-28t in the rear. I was looking into options for a different cassette which may have better gearing for hills but I really didn't want to make any major changes to the drivetrain.

msu2001la

44x28 as the lowest climbing gear for a multi-day ride is very aggressive. Even without looking at a profile of your route, I'd suggest running the largest cassette that your RD can handle, and consider running a smaller front ring like a 40T.

Personally I'd be willing to give up top-end speed on a ride like this to ensure I had enough gears for rolling hills, which become exponentially more difficult at the end of a 100 mile day.

That said, you ride a 44t with an 11-28 now, so you likely have a pretty good idea of what it is/isn't capable of.

Trakhak

Depends on the route. Much of NJ as seen from I-95 looks fairly flat, but farther west you would encounter more demanding terrain. Same for Maryland.