Kontact 

Are you using your disability to make it sound like I was bagging on the handicapped using things that help them live normal lives?

You might also suggest that I am racist against the French for developing electronic shifting.

tomato coupe

When I push the levers on my mechanical shifters, they shift. When I push the levers on my electronic shifters, they shift. Mechanical does not offer better “control” of the timing.

Kontact 

You've never noticed that you can shift onto the big ring slowly and with less force if you want to? You can.

Sy Reene

Which is faster.. rolling up the window with a crank or with an electric push-button? That seems the net crux of this thread.

tomato coupe

Shifting slowly just means more rubbing. I can set a parameter on my electronic to shift more slowly, but there’s no reason I would want it to do that.

Kontact 

The usual expression is feathering, and it is something people do when they are shifting under tremendous loud, have wear or damage on the chainrings or have concerns about dropping the chain at a key time.

tomato coupe

You can call it anything you like, but the fact is slow shifting means the chain is rubbing more on both the derailleur and the chain ring. There is no benefit.

Kontact 

It is always refreshing to take a break from reality and read about what people on Bike Forums are substituting for it. Your statement isn't as interesting as the ones about how springs work in this thread, but they are interesting.

Bah Humbug

Which lets you safely get the passenger-side door? That's the kicker for me. Crank windows can DIAF.

tomato coupe

Reality is alive and well in my world, where shifting works best when you minimize the time spent in transition. I don’t think you will find an engineer in the cycling business that thinks it’s a good idea to slowly grind your way onto another chain ring.

Kontact 

So we could have one of those back and forths where I patiently explain that it isn't just grinding away but feeling for the spot where the chain will go up with the least effort. And then you'll reply as if you've never experienced this, insist that what I'm talking about doesn't actually exist and then mischaracterize my initial post as saying that everyone should be shifting this way every time.

Or I could just write down the whole insensible conversation and you can go back to pretending you don't have any experience easing a shift.

tomato coupe

Again, you can call it anything you want, but that "feeling" is the chain rubbing on the chain ring.

ummed

What were the issues they had?

Sy Reene

From a safety perspective.. what if you drive off a bridge and end up at the bottom of the river and need to escape.. then which is the more reliable?

Maelochs

As for mechanical shifting and "rubbing' .... maybe y'all have forgotten the days of friction ....

Gently lifting the chain off the middle ring and depositing it perfectly onto the teeth of the big ring was a supreme skill .... At the time I was riding a lot and i got very good at shifting at just the right time to lift and drop the chain with minimal time and minimal grinding .... getting just enough of the chain to wrap that it would pull itself onto the chain ring but not to waste a moment, or momentum.

Something similar is possible with an indexed brifter because it is still a mechanical connection ... I can pull the lever a certain amount or speed and adjust, if say, the indexing is a little off (usually I just adjust the barrel adjuster but sometimes they stick and need two hands and I am not going to crash for adjusting a shifter.)

This does not equate to grinding.

Is this in any way better or worse than electronic, which pretty much does everything with a speed and precision equal to or better than even a skilled rider?

I simply don't care. Fight away to be the king of the Internet hill.

Maelochs

And ... whether or not my (potential) next bike has electronic shifting, you can believe this---it will not have hand-cranked, roll-up windows. I am no Luddite.

seypat

What about those slide windows with pull loops that came on some limited production factory race cars in the 60's?

Bah Humbug

My Civic with manual windows had the driver's-side fail. So I'm going with power windows being more reliable.

Also, I trust myself to not drive off a bridge. More concerned with being able to do things while, you know, driving normally.

Bah Humbug

Shifts not taking, followed by the queued shifts suddenly occurring at once.

GhostRider62

No but invoking rule 5 (harden the **** up)and calling me handicapped is rude and I was calling you out on it. So, having a hand problem makes me disabled and not "normal" is my take on your latest.

I don't think you are racist, I think you are weak.

TMonk

Haven't read the thread, just want to weigh in on my experiences. Etap 11 user for a few years (TT bike, 1x up front) and recently Ultegra Di2 12 speed on my TCR (~8 months). I think the potential downsides are being a bit heavier and having to remember to charge them occasionally. The benefits greatly, greatly outweigh them IMO. I'll report back if/when I have other issues. I like not having to work on my bikes.

seypat

Back around 2015-2017 a friend fo mine who was a hardcore triathlete won a new bike in a giveaway from his tri club. Nice bike with a SRAM group on it. He hadn't had it very long when we did this ride listed below. Throughout that ride, the FD would not shift correctly. At every SAG, the mech crew would have to work on it. They finally got it on the small ring at one point and told him to keep it there the rest of the ride. I don't remember the story of the bike after that.

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/29030456

seypat

That was a true story? I apologize, I didn't know. Epic read either way.

Kontact 

I didn't call you handicapped. I said that you were implying that I was dismissive of those with handicaps.

Why do you think the word "handicapped" is rude? Or is it like "gay", where it is an okay label for other people, but offensive if someone implies that it applies to you?


What's rude is that some people in this thread started talking about other people's shifting choices as if those others were cheap or stupid. And everything that's been posted since is a result of that.

I think your personal attack was weak.

BillyD

Let’s drop it right now, you two!