What kind of sorcery are master links?!
11-06-20, 09:24 AM
#26
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I did that with 7 and 8 sp chains for years and never had any problems. In my experience, 7 & 8sp chains are much more forgiving than the thin plate 9 and up ones. Nevertheless, Campagnolo doesn't have replacement pins or master links for their 9sp chains IIRC.
For the record, I'm not telling anyone they should reuse their pins. I'm just stating my experience.
For the record, I'm not telling anyone they should reuse their pins. I'm just stating my experience.
master links are so cheap and easy to use, it's not worth the risk for me when the consequences involve crashing in traffic and sliding into the path of a moving care or smashing my face into a rock on a trail. I can't imagine myself doing that and then thinking "at least I didn't have to buy a $5 quick link! totally worth the savings!"
11-06-20, 09:26 AM
#27
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I asked the shop about the one time pin. These are some older bikes that have older chains and weren't ridden a lot before they sat in the garage. The chain on the specialized was fine, just a little gunk. I don't know what chains they are, I looked but couldn't tell.
The old mountain bike had too much rust on the chain for me to be comfortable with after I cleaned it. It was time for a new one.
The plier I got from Amazon, it was just called "bike link pliers" and came with an assortment of links.
My suspension is when I opened everything up all the links where in nearby piles and got mixed up. No problem, I should probably use a fresh one right?
It was hard keeping the chain straight so the links would line up. The pliers didn't want to spread, only go in maybe my technique? I didn't think of using the brake and spread the chain like that. I thought the pins should have been further through the side plates they looked flush.
I can go through all my gears just fine. My specialized has a 7 cog cassette, I think the mongoose has 7 as well. The spare links had 8, 9, and 10 on them but one group had no number, just a triangle.
I guess I am missing the part were these things are an improvement. Back when I was a serious rider I simply used a chain tool (and so did the shop I hung out at) and never had a single problem. Not one.
I'm not a roadie anymore but have finally accepted there are other ways to enjoy cycling. I have too many injuries to even consider taking riding a road bike but I've recently dusted off my non-road bikes and now that I've finally gotten used to riding in a position that at first wasn't natural for me I've been riding regularly. I doubt I will ever be able to ride 20 miles at a shot but my 5-10 miles have had an amazing therapeutic effect on my knees and the rest of my body.
I have no plans on riding anything other than mostly smooth surfaces, and the area I live in has a lot of good fun riding sections.
I want to convert the old mongoose hilltopper into something else. I got some great inspiration in that thread.
My point in that long diatribe is that I don't need a lot of performance components to make it work for me. Maybe I can avoid master links, at least for the time being. Maybe all link wrenches aren't the same and mine is crappy. Maybe I need to use a wire to keep the chain in place while I fiddle with it. I have horrible arthritic hands which doesn't make any of this easier.
The rear wheel on my specialized was not properly tensioned and was making tinking noises as I road, plus it was out of true pretty bad. I managed to fix it right up without even a trueing stand, I knew I could improve it but it's a perfectly true wheel now!
So I can true a wheel, fix a flat, and adjust the brakes. We'll see how far that gets me. My original plan was to drop them both off for tune ups but they are all behind a few weeks. I'm back to wrenching on my own bike.
Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I will return to my master link battle eventually. I'm going to look into some higher quality links, the ones that came with my plyers might not be the best.
The old mountain bike had too much rust on the chain for me to be comfortable with after I cleaned it. It was time for a new one.
The plier I got from Amazon, it was just called "bike link pliers" and came with an assortment of links.
My suspension is when I opened everything up all the links where in nearby piles and got mixed up. No problem, I should probably use a fresh one right?
It was hard keeping the chain straight so the links would line up. The pliers didn't want to spread, only go in maybe my technique? I didn't think of using the brake and spread the chain like that. I thought the pins should have been further through the side plates they looked flush.
I can go through all my gears just fine. My specialized has a 7 cog cassette, I think the mongoose has 7 as well. The spare links had 8, 9, and 10 on them but one group had no number, just a triangle.
I guess I am missing the part were these things are an improvement. Back when I was a serious rider I simply used a chain tool (and so did the shop I hung out at) and never had a single problem. Not one.
I'm not a roadie anymore but have finally accepted there are other ways to enjoy cycling. I have too many injuries to even consider taking riding a road bike but I've recently dusted off my non-road bikes and now that I've finally gotten used to riding in a position that at first wasn't natural for me I've been riding regularly. I doubt I will ever be able to ride 20 miles at a shot but my 5-10 miles have had an amazing therapeutic effect on my knees and the rest of my body.
I have no plans on riding anything other than mostly smooth surfaces, and the area I live in has a lot of good fun riding sections.
I want to convert the old mongoose hilltopper into something else. I got some great inspiration in that thread.
My point in that long diatribe is that I don't need a lot of performance components to make it work for me. Maybe I can avoid master links, at least for the time being. Maybe all link wrenches aren't the same and mine is crappy. Maybe I need to use a wire to keep the chain in place while I fiddle with it. I have horrible arthritic hands which doesn't make any of this easier.
The rear wheel on my specialized was not properly tensioned and was making tinking noises as I road, plus it was out of true pretty bad. I managed to fix it right up without even a trueing stand, I knew I could improve it but it's a perfectly true wheel now!
So I can true a wheel, fix a flat, and adjust the brakes. We'll see how far that gets me. My original plan was to drop them both off for tune ups but they are all behind a few weeks. I'm back to wrenching on my own bike.
Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I will return to my master link battle eventually. I'm going to look into some higher quality links, the ones that came with my plyers might not be the best.
11-06-20, 10:54 AM
#28
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With KMC master links, they are easy to remove if you push the sides inward, then try to slide them.
When dealing with chains, I have a 3" long piece of wire coat hangar with a 1" bend in each end. Kind of like this /______\ You slip it into two sections of chain and it gives you a nice slack section to work on.
When dealing with chains, I have a 3" long piece of wire coat hangar with a 1" bend in each end. Kind of like this /______\ You slip it into two sections of chain and it gives you a nice slack section to work on.
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11-06-20, 01:23 PM
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If you can figure out how to tie your own shoes, connecting a master link is a breeze. be sure to use the correct size master link. it's not complicated, but if you're using a 9 speed chain and a 10 speed master link, the chain will be too wide for the master link and it will never fit. everything in your post sounds like you're using the wrong size. if you want to guarantee that your chain will break mid-ride, go back to pushing a reused pin through the chain with a chain tool. I hope you have a good dentist.
i've been using master links on hundreds of bicycles for over a decade and never needed pliers to re-connect a master link. install the link and push down on the pedal to put some tension on the chain and the master link will just click together.
i've been using master links on hundreds of bicycles for over a decade and never needed pliers to re-connect a master link. install the link and push down on the pedal to put some tension on the chain and the master link will just click together.
11-06-20, 01:24 PM
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With KMC master links, they are easy to remove if you push the sides inward, then try to slide them.
When dealing with chains, I have a 3" long piece of wire coat hangar with a 1" bend in each end. Kind of like this /______\ You slip it into two sections of chain and it gives you a nice slack section to work on.
When dealing with chains, I have a 3" long piece of wire coat hangar with a 1" bend in each end. Kind of like this /______\ You slip it into two sections of chain and it gives you a nice slack section to work on.
11-06-20, 01:38 PM
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what specific chain and link are you using? pictures? there's something weird going on here because millions of other people use master links every day with minimal effort and no problems.
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11-06-20, 09:52 PM
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I've decided to get kmc links and try again. Both of my chains are older thick ones, I'm not really worried about a break, I've never had that happen before.
But I'm not going to be the only one that can't master the master link. I looked at the kmc pics up close and they seem made better than the ones I have. Using the wire hook should help too.
ETA: my chain is the kmc 8 speed. My cassette is the shimano 7. Apparently kmc makes a 7.1 link and 7.3 link. The ones that came with my pliers are 7.1. I think I need the 7.3.
I think my problem was losing the original links, or at least one of them, and the 7.1's in the pack were too short of pin.
I'm also going to separate the links into different vials according to size and not set parts on things that will blow away. Especially considering I have a magnetic part holding bowl.
But I'm not going to be the only one that can't master the master link. I looked at the kmc pics up close and they seem made better than the ones I have. Using the wire hook should help too.
ETA: my chain is the kmc 8 speed. My cassette is the shimano 7. Apparently kmc makes a 7.1 link and 7.3 link. The ones that came with my pliers are 7.1. I think I need the 7.3.
I think my problem was losing the original links, or at least one of them, and the 7.1's in the pack were too short of pin.
I'm also going to separate the links into different vials according to size and not set parts on things that will blow away. Especially considering I have a magnetic part holding bowl.
Last edited by margoC; 11-06-20 at 11:24 PM.
11-07-20, 07:13 AM
#35
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I've found that some quick links require you to flex the chain sideways so that the pins line up. It doesn't take much flexing pressure but it's almost impossible to get the pins in if you don't.
11-07-20, 08:44 AM
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11-07-20, 10:15 AM
#37
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I've decided to get kmc links and try again. Both of my chains are older thick ones, I'm not really worried about a break, I've never had that happen before.
But I'm not going to be the only one that can't master the master link. I looked at the kmc pics up close and they seem made better than the ones I have. Using the wire hook should help too.
ETA: my chain is the kmc 8 speed. My cassette is the shimano 7. Apparently kmc makes a 7.1 link and 7.3 link. The ones that came with my pliers are 7.1. I think I need the 7.3.
I think my problem was losing the original links, or at least one of them, and the 7.1's in the pack were too short of pin.
I'm also going to separate the links into different vials according to size and not set parts on things that will blow away. Especially considering I have a magnetic part holding bowl.
But I'm not going to be the only one that can't master the master link. I looked at the kmc pics up close and they seem made better than the ones I have. Using the wire hook should help too.
ETA: my chain is the kmc 8 speed. My cassette is the shimano 7. Apparently kmc makes a 7.1 link and 7.3 link. The ones that came with my pliers are 7.1. I think I need the 7.3.
I think my problem was losing the original links, or at least one of them, and the 7.1's in the pack were too short of pin.
I'm also going to separate the links into different vials according to size and not set parts on things that will blow away. Especially considering I have a magnetic part holding bowl.
Why didn't or don't you buy a chain that comes with it's own master link so you know for certain you got the right stuff?
11-08-20, 07:15 PM
#38
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I did get a new one for one bike, but I accidentally mixed up the master link with the pile I got with the pliers.
The other chain doesn't need replacing, I just wanted to clean it.
I got some calipers, which I needed anyway, and measured stuff. The pins on my cleaned chain are 7.1mm. None of the pins that came with that kit were that long, the longest was 6.8mm.
My new kmc master links are the advertised 7.1 mm.
Both bikes are operating very nicely so far but I'm going to go back to this issue and put master links on them. Just because.
The other chain doesn't need replacing, I just wanted to clean it.
I got some calipers, which I needed anyway, and measured stuff. The pins on my cleaned chain are 7.1mm. None of the pins that came with that kit were that long, the longest was 6.8mm.
My new kmc master links are the advertised 7.1 mm.
Both bikes are operating very nicely so far but I'm going to go back to this issue and put master links on them. Just because.
11-09-20, 08:58 AM
#39
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I did get a new one for one bike, but I accidentally mixed up the master link with the pile I got with the pliers.
11-09-20, 09:29 AM
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7.3mm MissingLink (CL-573R) (models X8, Z8, Z7, Z50, and Z33)
7.1mm MissingLink (CL-571R) (models Z51, Z51RB, and Z72)
Both found here: KMC Connectors
If your chain is an X8, then it almost certainly needs the 7.3m ML.
Last edited by hokiefyd; 11-09-20 at 02:16 PM.
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11-09-20, 12:16 PM
#41
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get a small screwdriver that fits inside the missing link or equivalent, and just lever it either direction along the axis of the chain. It will click closed. I have stood and pushed hard on a pedal trying to lock one, but the screwdriver does it with a push of the wrist.
11-09-20, 06:01 PM
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Just to make sure, you're using the special pliers made just for this purpose, right? Like these here, for example: Chain link pliers
11-09-20, 06:15 PM
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My point in that long diatribe is that I don't need a lot of performance components to make it work for me. Maybe I can avoid master links, at least for the time being. Maybe all link wrenches aren't the same and mine is crappy. Maybe I need to use a wire to keep the chain in place while I fiddle with it. I have horrible arthritic hands which doesn't make any of this easier.
.
https://www.amazon.com/Topeak-601013.../dp/B005EP95ZC
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11-10-20, 11:05 AM
#44
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Original poster should know she is not the only one. It says a lot that the replies include a variety of “tricks” and that there is no one obvious technique. I have done the task at least a hundred times by now and it has never been easy. By now I know that the job will get done, but just not that easy. For anyone who finds it simple, good for you.
Use a work stand. Get the work up to eye level. If you can have it at eye level while sitting on a chair or stool even better.
On my own bikes I have had modern snap link chains only twice. Both of those chains broke. At the snap link. Those installations were done by very senior mechanics, guys who are routinely consulted by parts manufacturers, guys with multiple patents to their credit. Neither was surprised by the failures. Both said the failure rate for these parts is acceptable but that no method ever had a zero failure rate. I never had any other chain failures in my 400,000 miles.
If you really dislike the modern method old chains made for riveted pins can still be found. Old stock. You won’t be able to use the old stock with 10, 11, 12, or 13 cog cassettes.
Use a work stand. Get the work up to eye level. If you can have it at eye level while sitting on a chair or stool even better.
On my own bikes I have had modern snap link chains only twice. Both of those chains broke. At the snap link. Those installations were done by very senior mechanics, guys who are routinely consulted by parts manufacturers, guys with multiple patents to their credit. Neither was surprised by the failures. Both said the failure rate for these parts is acceptable but that no method ever had a zero failure rate. I never had any other chain failures in my 400,000 miles.
If you really dislike the modern method old chains made for riveted pins can still be found. Old stock. You won’t be able to use the old stock with 10, 11, 12, or 13 cog cassettes.
11-10-20, 12:56 PM
#45
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I typically also just use my fingers. Most of my chains are 6/7/8-speed chains with the CL-571R/3R MissingLinks. After a few cycles, they typically do get easier to remove by hand. Note KMC denotes MLs designed to be reused with an "R" at the end of the part number (as in, CL-573R). I understand some may be uncomfortable reusing MLs, but I've been quite happy with KMC's reusable ones myself.
Other reusable MLs in KMC's lineup are CL-566R (6.6mm for 9-speed chains), CL-559R (5.9mm for 10-speed chains), and CL-555R (5.5mm for 11-speed chains). KMC also sells a non-reusable 11-speed ML, the CL-555.
Because I can take most of my chains apart by hand, I don't have the special tool, but I have found snap ring pliers to be helpful in a pinch if I do need a little something extra. You can reverse them so that the pins either spread open (useful for installing a ML) or close shut (useful for removing a ML).
Other reusable MLs in KMC's lineup are CL-566R (6.6mm for 9-speed chains), CL-559R (5.9mm for 10-speed chains), and CL-555R (5.5mm for 11-speed chains). KMC also sells a non-reusable 11-speed ML, the CL-555.
Because I can take most of my chains apart by hand, I don't have the special tool, but I have found snap ring pliers to be helpful in a pinch if I do need a little something extra. You can reverse them so that the pins either spread open (useful for installing a ML) or close shut (useful for removing a ML).
11-12-20, 10:41 AM
#46
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Good of a place as any to ask. I bought a couple pairs of YBN quicklinks. Anyone have experience with these? Their chains have been rated pretty well on some sites, so thought I'd give them a shot. Haven't installed yet though. Used them in my cart to top off an order for free shipping and they were a bit under $3 per pair (seemingly comparing favorably vs. the typical $7/pair that the KMC variety seem to sell for).
One product description/seller here:
https://moltenspeedwax.com/products/...er-link-qrs-11
One product description/seller here:
https://moltenspeedwax.com/products/...er-link-qrs-11
11-14-20, 11:50 PM
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I had a chain that I remembered being missing link but couldn't find it either, I guess I was supposed to clean it first? What I did was remove the jockey wheel on the derailleur I was replacing and slipped the chain through that way.
To hold your chain in place they also make these
To hold your chain in place they also make these
11-15-20, 10:08 AM
#48
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Update
I've not had a problem since I got some real kmc links. I still don't see the advantage, I wouldn't leave a chain tool at home assuming everything would go smoothly with the quick link. The wire really helped, as did using better quality links.
At least I'm one of the cool kids now though.
At least I'm one of the cool kids now though.
11-15-20, 10:30 AM
#49
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I have nothing to add to this conversation except that I, too, find Master Links and EZ-Links and Magic Links to be more of a PITA than anything else.
I have been using a chain tool for 25 years, pushing the pin out just far enough to separate the chain, then pressing it back in to reinstall. In all that time, I have never had a chain fall apart on me, and this includes the hundreds of bikes I built for a bicycle giveaway program in the early 2000's.
My most recent two or three chains came with one of the super-duper links, as well as instructions to avoid - at any cost - any other method of securing the ends. This meant buying an expensive chain-specific wrench and having to carry this and a bunch of spare links in my bag at all times. I haven't had to use any of them yet, but something tells me that when my chain DOES break on a ride someday, I will be repairing it the old school way.
I have been using a chain tool for 25 years, pushing the pin out just far enough to separate the chain, then pressing it back in to reinstall. In all that time, I have never had a chain fall apart on me, and this includes the hundreds of bikes I built for a bicycle giveaway program in the early 2000's.
My most recent two or three chains came with one of the super-duper links, as well as instructions to avoid - at any cost - any other method of securing the ends. This meant buying an expensive chain-specific wrench and having to carry this and a bunch of spare links in my bag at all times. I haven't had to use any of them yet, but something tells me that when my chain DOES break on a ride someday, I will be repairing it the old school way.
11-15-20, 02:31 PM
#50
Senior Member
Wipperman. Far and away superior to Sram quick links, which are sensitive to dirt and can be a PIA. I used Sram links for years and have thrown them out. The Wipperman links require no tools, and barely any finger pressure.
Use a chain tool on a narrow chain with peened pins at your peril, unless the chain is headed for the recycling bin. The chain will fail unless the rider never exceeds boardwalk-level power output.
Use a chain tool on a narrow chain with peened pins at your peril, unless the chain is headed for the recycling bin. The chain will fail unless the rider never exceeds boardwalk-level power output.
