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Please critique my setup

Old 08-20-20, 04:08 PM
  #1  
Sjtaylor
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Please critique my setup

I’ve been invited to join a couple of bikepacking trips. Both trips are mostly hilly gravel and dirt roads with no technical single track. I’m told some of the road surfaces may rutted and rough. The bike I’m planning to use is a 2015 Giant Revolt. Check out the photo. The seat I’ll use is a B-17.

I have a rear rack that fits well and I have panniers for it. I also have a front pannier rack but no place to mount it. I do have a large Revelate Sweet Roll but it doesn’t really work with drop bars. I’d welcome ideas for a suitable front bag for this bike. The Ariel Rollpacker 25 interests me but it better not be mistake purchase for as much as it costs. My drop bars are 44cm c to c.

Also, I’m 220lbs and plan to carry maybe as much as 20+lbs of gear. That year Revolt has quick release axles and I’m a little worried I may be overloading the wheels. I’ll probably invest in 42mm or 45mm tires to cushion more of the bumps.

To save some $$ I repurposed a road triple into a sub compact double. The hack seems to work fine. I’ll have a ten speed 11-36 cassette and a 39-26 double in front that replaces the original 48-34 compact double. I chose to file off a bottle cage mount rivnut to get the front derailleur low enough (shame on me). The gearing will give me 100 gear inches to 20 gear inches. I wish I was fitter.

Any thoughts or ideas on my proposed setup will be welcomed. I would especially like ideas on what drop bar front bags to look at.

Thanks.




Last edited by Sjtaylor; 08-20-20 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 08-20-20, 04:22 PM
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Need a non carbon fork to safely put a front rack on, otherwise You fit a handle bar bag..


I toured on highways so I have nothing to say about the gravel craze..

Bring a 3rd tire..
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Old 08-20-20, 04:40 PM
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That Arkel Bag has a handle bar mounted rack. I think it might work with a carbon fork. My touring bike is a 1984 Trek 720. I’ve never really bikepacked before.
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Old 08-20-20, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Sjtaylor
I’ve been invited to join a couple of bikepacking trips. Both trips are mostly hilly gravel and dirt roads with no technical single track. I’m told some of the road surfaces may rutted and rough. The bike I’m planning to use is a 2015 Giant Revolt. Check out the photo. The seat I’ll use is a B-17.

I have a rear rack that fits well and I have panniers for it. I also have a front pannier rack but no place to mount it. I do have a large Revelate Sweet Roll but it doesn’t really work with drop bars. I’d welcome ideas for a suitable front bag for this bike. The Ariel Rollpacker 25 interests me but it better not be mistake purchase for as much as it costs. My drop bars are 44cm c to c.

Also, I’m 220lbs and plan to carry maybe as much as 20+lbs of gear. That year Revolt has quick release axles and I’m a little worried I may be overloading the wheels. I’ll probably invest in 42mm or 45mm tires to cushion more of the bumps.

To save some $$ I repurposed a road triple into a sub compact double. The hack seems to work fine. I’ll have a ten speed 11-36 cassette and a 39-26 double in front that replaces the original 48-34 compact double. I chose to file off a bottle cage mount rivnut to get the front derailleur low enough (shame on me). The gearing will give me 100 gear inches to 20 gear inches. I wish I was fitter.

Any thoughts or ideas on my proposed setup will be welcomed. I would especially like ideas on what drop bar front bags to look at.

Thanks.


Nice looking bike.

First, you dont say if your B17 and your butt to it, are broken in. Could be an exercise in torture if you're not adapted to your saddle, which might not be fun on a long trip.
Looking at your stem height I'm concerned that your saddle height appears higher than your bars where Brooks have long suggested that their "touring" saddles work best when the handlebars are higher than the saddle.
Yes some people are exceptions and I'm not interested in a debate on the topic. Pretty sure you'll be able to confirm on either Sheldon Browns pages or indeed Brooks themselves.

To fit a Ortlieb handlebar bag on my Ogre with Jones H bar, I added an extender bar from SJS Cycles which may or may not work for you and have seen something similar done by using a second longer stem underneath your existing handlebar stem but utilising a length of flat bar to then add a "roll".
Something like this: https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/accessor...lack-anodized/. is what I use for my Ortlieb bag.
They have other sizes.
A very quick look for a pic of the double stem idea comes up with The Bicycle Technologist : A Double Stem (by Michel Gagnon). (scroll down). You'd simply add a length of flat handlebar the required length to suit your sweet roll.

Saying that, RonK manages to utilise a roll on his drop barred Salsa Fargo here: whispering wheels, singing spokes...

Your gearing would be too high for my use, but I'm over 50 with dodgy knees, likely from riding too higher geared bikes perhaps

Last edited by rifraf; 08-20-20 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 08-20-20, 06:09 PM
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My B-17 is broken in. I wish I had one for each of my bikes. If my ride is to last for more than a couple hours my B-17 goes on the bike of the day.

What gearing do you recommend for bikepacking?

Thanks.
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Old 08-20-20, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Sjtaylor
My B-17 is broken in. I wish I had one for each of my bikes. If my ride is to last for more than a couple hours my B-17 goes on the bike of the day.

What gearing do you recommend for bikepacking?

Thanks.
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/gear-calc.html

I'm not a bike packer and what works for me, won't necessarily work for someone else.
I've dodgy knees and like to spin at a rpm in the 90's to keep the knees unloaded.
I tour on a 29er Mountain style bike, well loaded (full panniers) and sometimes haul a trailer, so 15.3 gear-inches at the low end and according to Sheldons site, 80.2 at the top end although with my staid and slow riding style, I never get close to using my top gears.
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Old 08-20-20, 07:54 PM
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Close enough. If it fits, it'll do the job.

Might want to add a few links to the chain, you'll need to be able to do big/big or risk damaging the RD.

That tilt on the rear rack is also bothersome, but more of an aesthetic thing. I like mine completely level.

I've toured/bikepacked rear-only with the same rack and a half frame bag. If you pack light, you'll be fine. If I really need stuff the front, I use a Roadrunner Jammer on a Kaddyrack, which attaches to bars only.

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Old 08-20-20, 07:56 PM
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I use Sheldon’s calculator. My hands and wrists don’t like flat bars or those flat bar extension things. My hands only like drop bar hoods tilted in. Mountain bike bars don’t work. Haven’t yet tried to put drop bars on a mountain bike.

I have a Novara Safari with the right gearing. The smallest chainring is 22 teeth with a 34 in back. I could go to a 36 in back and that would give me a low gear of 17 gear inches. That bike is a heavy slug, pretty unattractive and looks nothing like what others are bikepacking on. The Safari has an 18-1/2” chainstay, fenders partially wire tied on and looks a lot like a comfort bike. I toured a little on that bike and it has all the pannier racks and bags. The Safari’s beast of a frame fits four water bottles.

Im having a difficult time figuring out the right groupset to get that low gearing on the Revolt. I don’t want to throw a lot of money at this first group bikepacking opportunity. I’d have to buy gearing and a front bag for the it. I’ve almost convinced myself to take the fenders off the Safari, put some 45mm gravel tires on it and show up with it for our bikepacking trip. I may go shopping for tires at the LBS in the morning. The fenders are coming off tonight.

Still on the fence about this.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:00 PM
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I can fix the tilt. I still have to load up and try things with my size thirteens. My touring bike has significantly longer chainstays and I worry a little about heel clearance. That tilt bothers me too.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:47 PM
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There are plenty of modern Carbon forks designed for racks or carrying smaller loads. Fyxation Sparta, Rodeo Spork, Ren GX1 (which you can get with a titanium rando rack), Cinq Adventure/Touring and I believe there are some others but I cannot recall them at this time. Though fietsbob is not terribly off because steel or titanium would make better for mounting racks and carrying more weight but it can be done on carbon just more carefully.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:48 PM
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I also like my rear rack rails to be horizontal, but if you use that rack on a couple different bikes, you might not want to hack saw off the front attachment rods if that might impair how it fits on other bikes. In that case, not quite horizontal is probably preferable. Or, if you did hacksaw them to fit, you can buy extra rods too. I think Racktime rods and Tubus rods are the same thing.

I have never bikepacked, but I have seen plenty of bikepackers, they carry very little gear. If you are carrying rear panniers, if you minimized your gear enough you might not need a front bag.

Four years ago I saw an article in a magazine on how to make a harness for bikepacking front bag. That magazine no longer exists but I looked to see if that article appeared anywhere else, and it did, here is the link:
https://dirtscrolls.com/14963349-how...lebar-hardness

I have not tried to replicate that harness, so I can't say if it is a good one or not. But with a good dry bag it might be all you need for a sleeping bag and some clothes shoved into the same bag. And if you are making it yourself, you can accommodate your bar width just fine. Make sure that you can shift if you put a bikepacking type bag in between your brifters.

Have you considered a suspension seatpost? I do not have a mountain bike, but I have on a couple occasions put a suspension fork and cheap telescoping suspension seatpost on my expedition bike and pretended it was a hard tail mountain bike. A friend of mind suggested the Thudbuster seatpost but I did not want to spend that much, instead I picked up a used cheap telescoping seatpost at a local bike charity for $10 USD.

Looks like you have 32 spokes front and rear. If you know how to use a spoke wrench, you might want to bring a few spare spokes. Odds are you will not need them, but if you do need one, you would really need it. Or, perhaps instead a fiberfix emergency spoke instead since that is not size specific like a spoke is.

You did not say how many days your trip is, minimize your weight as much as possible, if only half a week you can minimize pretty well. But, I have seen too many bikepackers show up in campsites badly dehydrated because they tried to reduce weight by taking too little water and ran out of water hours before they made it to teh campsite, that is a bad plan.

The one liter Smartwater brand water bottles fit well in bike cages, but only the one liter ones, the smaller ones do not. Life WTR brand one liter water bottles also fit well in cages. I only see one cage on your bike, how are you going to carry enough water?

Have a great time.
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Old 08-20-20, 11:24 PM
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This is a simple double ended drybag rolled so it fits between the drops. Holds my 1 man tent. Cheap and does what the expensive HB rolls do. Add a straps or bungee if you want extra security.




Probably the main problem on dirt roads is the rattling that washboards and potholes will create which may shake the panniers off the racks. If you use them make sure they are secured well and that the bolts/screws are tightened. A frame bag and gas tank bag also give storage space on the frame.
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Old 08-21-20, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
Looking at your stem height I'm concerned that your saddle height appears higher than your bars where Brooks have long suggested that their "touring" saddles work best when the handlebars are higher than the saddle.
Yes some people are exceptions and I'm not interested in a debate on the topic. Pretty sure you'll be able to confirm on either Sheldon Browns pages or indeed Brooks themselves.
Wow, no wonder my B17 is killing my perineum after 15 miles. Do you happen to know what Brooks suggests for people who want to keep their saddle level with their handlebars?
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Old 08-21-20, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Nyah
Wow, no wonder my B17 is killing my perineum after 15 miles. Do you happen to know what Brooks suggests for people who want to keep their saddle level with their handlebars?
B 17. The bike in my post above has saddle level with dropbar. It is a VO touring saddle, similar to a Brooks Flyer, which is just a sprung B 17.

The important thing is to decide which position you ride in most, hoods or drops, and adjust the nose angle for that.

If you have it optimized for hoods, and you go into the drops, it will press against the groin a bit. Over a long period you may get numbness or pain.

If you have it optimized for drops, staying in the hoods may feel like you are sliding forward which puts too much pressure on the hands to hold you back.

Once you get the main position set you can micro adjust to try and find a sweet (enough) spot for both. I find the newer seat posts with two adjustment bolts (for and aft) to work well for that.

The recommended saddle for more upright riding is the B 67, but that creates even more of a cradle and will dig into the groin deeper.

From the base B 17 design you can then look at similar models that accommodate wider or narrower sit bones.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 08-21-20 at 11:53 AM.
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Old 08-21-20, 05:29 PM
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I never thought much about adjusting my B-17 for the drops. I seldom go there for long.I gotta say though that the B-17 is a tough love. The B-17 is kind of pricey, it’s really heavy, it’s as hard as thick leather, you can’t get it wet, if it has springs they might creak, it’s kind of slippery, but my butt loves it. Slippery is okay as long as you get the angle of the saddle exactly right. It often takes a few tries to get it right while you fumble with difficult saddle mounts.

i also gotta say that they’re beautiful.
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Old 08-21-20, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Sjtaylor
My B-17 is broken in. I wish I had one for each of my bikes. If my ride is to last for more than a couple hours my B-17 goes on the bike of the day.

What gearing do you recommend for bikepacking?

Thanks.
The stock gearing on your bike is okay but not too low. Hills will be tough and dirt hills will be tougher. It’s not easy today to get proper wide range gearing because everyone has gone dumb on gearing. Ideally, this gearing with a triple would be much better than your current set up. But triple shifters are hard to find. You might play with that gear calculator (better than Brown’s) to see what a smaller double would do for you. Unfortunately, you’ll sacrifice the high gear to get the low gear.

And, by the way, level that rack.
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Old 08-21-20, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN

Four years ago I saw an article in a magazine on how to make a harness for bikepacking front bag. That magazine no longer exists but I looked to see if that article appeared anywhere else, and it did, here is the link:
https://dirtscrolls.com/14963349-how...lebar-hardness

I have not tried to replicate that harness, so I can't say if it is a good one or not. But with a good dry bag it might be all you need for a sleeping bag and some clothes shoved into the same bag. And if you are making it yourself, you can accommodate your bar width just fine. Make sure that you can shift if you put a bikepacking type bag in between your brifters.
.
Hiya
Are all the pics working for you?
Despite a few refresh's 2 to 6 won't form up as pics for me and I'm hoping its simply the local dodgy bandwidth
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Old 08-21-20, 09:35 PM
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Those WTB Nano tires... they're tough, have good grip on loose surfaces, and they usually inflate wider than marked (45mm on my WTB i23s). However they are heavy and incredibly, soul-sucking draggy compared to the latest hotness that gravel cyclists are using. If the road will actually be harsh and loose enough that you truly need the knobs (or would have to deflate a low-knob or file-tread fast gravel tire to maintain grip) then they're an OK choice IMHO.

Otherwise I'd pick a Continental Terra Speed - these have phenomenally low drag, almost equivalent to top-end road tires. They have low "dot" knobs and still work great on most gravel. Very tough, and have a sealed rubber inner liner so they hold air (and sealant) very well. Their fatal flaw is a shorter lifespan (like 2k vs 5k km), and they inflate narrower than a lot of other options. Max size is 700x40 though you can reduce pressure for comfort, and still have lower drag than the Nanos. These things are amazing and a total secret weapon, especially if you think you might be pushing to keep up with your buddies.

If you can't find the Terra Speeds, Gravel King SKs would do good, or a number of Rene Herse tires. I've played with quite a few WTBs and they have good value and durability, but all the ones I've tried have been draggy.

I'm assuming you're running tubeless on the Nanos and whatever might replace them. For a gravel trip and potentially deflating tires, tubeless (with plenty of sealant installed, packing a little spare sealant, and a plug kit) is hands-down no-questions-asked the right thing to do. These days all the traditional tradeoffs between loaded flat resistance and drag are kind of moot. For pavement touring there will still be arguments about it for years to come. Granted we're in the touring sub, not the gravel sub, so I expect there will be considerable argument anyway from people who have never toured loaded on gravel or with contemporary tires

Last edited by fourfa; 08-21-20 at 09:38 PM.
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Old 08-21-20, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Nyah
Wow, no wonder my B17 is killing my perineum after 15 miles. Do you happen to know what Brooks suggests for people who want to keep their saddle level with their handlebars?
Apologies for the lack of clarity.
I believe I should have added "equal to or above" for handlebar to saddle height.
My own bikes Brooks Flyer is set up "equal to"
I would attempt some incremental saddle nose adjustment before a new saddle purchase.
Many of the complaints I've heard have have been from when riding has been leaning forward "on the drops" with the wider saddles but for reasons including perineum pressure as well as chafing.
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Old 08-22-20, 03:26 AM
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Touring off road, you can never go too low with gearing, pushing a loaded bike up a gravel hill sucks.
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Old 08-22-20, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
Hiya
Are all the pics working for you?
Despite a few refresh's 2 to 6 won't form up as pics for me and I'm hoping its simply the local dodgy bandwidth
Sorry, I did not go through to see what was there. The photos did not work for me in Firefox, Chrome or Opera.

I saw the article four years ago, saved a copy to my hard drive because sometimes things you may want to look at again do disappear. The magazine went defunct and the article disappeared when their website disappeared.

I did a google search to see if the same article was out there somewhere, found the link that I posted.

I can't attach the PDF that I saved, it is too big to post. But I managed to pull the missing graphics off of my hard drive.











To reiterate, I have not made this harness, only saw it out there and saved a copy in case I might want to make it some day. Thus, I can't answer any questions about it.
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Old 08-22-20, 08:41 AM
  #22  
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Everybody seems to love the B17, I bought one when building up a touring bike sixteen years ago based on the rave reviews that touring cyclists gave it. The B17 only worked for me when I rode on the bar tops or hoods, but it was too wide and too flat for me when I rode in the drops. My B17 is now on a hybrid bike with flat bars that is on my indoor trainer for winter exercise.

Decades ago I used a Brooks Pro and I knew that I liked that saddle. The Conquest is the same shape as the Pro, but the Conquest is sprung. I bought a Conquest for the touring bike I was building up sixteen year ago, and it worked much better for me than the B17. Both the Pro and Conquest work for me when I am in the drops, hoods or the tops of the bars. I now have several Conquests and two Pros on my fleet.

Different butts are different shapes, what works for many on this board does not quite work for me.
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Old 08-22-20, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Sjtaylor
My B-17 is broken in. I wish I had one for each of my bikes. If my ride is to last for more than a couple hours my B-17 goes on the bike of the day.

What gearing do you recommend for bikepacking?

Thanks.
I would suggest testing the B-17 before a long off-road ride. I love Brooks saddles but I won’t use them for off-road riding. They are too slick and they tend to be too wide to get off the back on steep downhills where you have to get weight over the rear wheel. I’m not terribly sensitive to saddles so it makes little difference to me comfortwise but it does make a big difference in control.
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Old 08-22-20, 09:36 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Touring off road, you can never go too low with gearing, pushing a loaded bike up a gravel hill sucks.
On the other hand, coasting for miles because your gearing is too low is no fun either. 110 gear inches to 14 gear inches is just about right. Don’t have to push. Don’t have to coast...or at least I can coast faster
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Old 08-22-20, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Sorry, I did not go through to see what was there. The photos did not work for me in Firefox, Chrome or Opera.

I saw the article four years ago, saved a copy to my hard drive because sometimes things you may want to look at again do disappear. The magazine went defunct and the article disappeared when their website disappeared.

I did a google search to see if the same article was out there somewhere, found the link that I posted.

I can't attach the PDF that I saved, it is too big to post. But I managed to pull the missing graphics off of my hard drive.

To reiterate, I have not made this harness, only saw it out there and saved a copy in case I might want to make it some day. Thus, I can't answer any questions about it.
Thanks heaps for your efforts as its great to see the missing pics.

Much appreciated.
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