Chongo

Hi, I just bought an Appel frame on ebay. I don't know much about Appel except that he was one of the original Trek builders, and that he's highly respected by Joe Starck, one of the Rivendell builders. The bottom bracket shell is stamped ".ARC." and ".2.1.87." (the dots are actually centered with the numbers and letters). Any information on Appel frames will be appreciated. Also I assumed that his frames use English threading; however, I'm not able to thread an English-threaded bottom bracket into the shell. The threads look clean enough, so I don't think they need chasing. Does anyone know if he used Italian threading? Thanks.

luker

ARC stands for Appel Racing Components, and of course the date. They made very nice bicycles. All that I have followed have been english threaded, but that doesn't mean that they all were, or that someone hasn't blown out the size to Italian on the bottom bracket for a number of reasons. If you have an Italian cup, try it out.

Fred Smedley

I am holding the BB that came out of that frame in my hand. A campy Athena 1.370x24 tpi. Hope this helps. I believe this is British as a Cannondale was the donor.

luker

I'm confused. Fred has the bottom bracket from Chongo's Appel which originated from a Cannondale? Did I get that right? Geez, who's on Second? By the way, we really need a picture of this bike...I have a '77 Trek TX900 that Appel put together, and I'm a big fan!

Fred Smedley

I am assuming that is the frame I sold as mine said 2-1-87 also . There is a picture of it I posted in the Framebuilders forum of Bike forums if you use search.

luker

Oh, yeah. Nice bike. Is he still in business?

The Trek is pretty much a straight Cinelli SC copy, I think.

2tall

First time post...

I've enjoyed the Appel frame discussion. I, too, have an Appel frame, which is stamped on the BB shell, "ARC 81 R 30". It has an "Appel" seat tube decal set, and an "A" head tube decal. Mine's a righteous 29" (74cm) frame, and with 700c wheels is 38" stand-over height. Obviously a custom build. I got the frame as a complete bike off eBay about a year ago, and was intitially drawn to it because of the size (I'm 6'9" tall).

I don't know what the original build configuration was. It came with Suntour Cyclone front/rear ders, and an Avocet roller-bearing headset (which I understand is quite rare). These appeared to be original, and are still on the bike. I had to replace most everything else. The bike is a real head-turner, and it fits me like I'd ordered it myself.

I, too, am very interested in Mike Appel, the builder, and Appel bikes in general. I've searched the net for more information, but there doesn't seem to be a lot out there.

Chongo

Thanks everyone for the replies. Like 2tall, I haven't found much on Appels except for some early Trek blurbs, and the Joe Starck interview on the Rivendell Website. The fact that Starck puts Appel in the same group of builders as Brian Bayliss and Richard Sachs makes me wonder why there isn't more info on him. Yes Fred, yours was the one I bought. I'm planning on having it repainted probably by Cyclart. Hopefully they can replicate the decals too. I'll have to save up a bit though since they are a bit pricey.

Chongo

Thanks. That's Brit threading. I'll try carefully treading the BB in with a little more force.

martl

sorry for digging out ancient threads in my first posting, just found this thread while googling for more info about other Appels.

i, too, own a Mike Appel, bought it on Ebay 2005. (my last name is "Appel" and my first name starts with an "M", so i just had to have it - not related to the man, though. Possibly only M.Appel frame in Germany now...)

Pics of the frame can be seen here:
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...am/Mike-Appel/

and not so good ones of the bike finally built are here
https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/martl/mikeappel

"ARC", i guess, stands for "Appel Racing Cycles", at least thats what the band on the seattube says (https://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/.../mp01.jpg.html)

this one is from 1995 (bottom bracket stamping says "10 1995")

this bike has a rather odd long top tube (59cm on a 57cm frame). I also saw once a very large Appel frame on Ebay, framesize 70 or even taller. Makes me wonder if Appel tried to build for customers with special needs other framebuilders wouldnt accept?

Last thing i heard was that Mike Appel closed his shop and works now for Trek again. Perhaps he was lacking the publicity the likes of Sachs, Bayliss or others do have, it isnt always about pure build quality, and its quite hard to make a living in this niche.

I,too, would like to know more about the man...and his bikes! any info appreciated...

luker

A cooincidence indeed. I pulled my '77 trek down yesterday and rode it with a group - it performed very well. Mr. Appel should be proud. Where did you hear that he was back at Trek?

monogodo

I've met Mike Appel and hung out at his shop in Madison once. He gave me a couple of Reynolds 531 frame decals as a souvenir. I want to say that my sister-in-law rides a custom Appel, but I'm not positive about that. I'll have to get in touch with my brother who lives up the street from where Appel's shop used to be to see what he knows/remembers about Appel frames. If I'm extremely lucky, he might have contact information for him.

Chongo

Hi, I bought the small red Appel frame from you a while back. I had it repainted and been searching for decals ever since. I heard that Colin at Chronometro in Madison knew him personally but he told me that Appel is now a painter at Trek and no longer has an interest in framebuilding and most likely would not have any decals lying around. By the way, I've built the frame up, and love the way it rides. If I was going to be on a bike all day, this would be the one. Nothing else like a great classic steel frame.

Chongo

Sorry. The above reply was for Lunker.

martl

I read it on the "classicrendezvous"-mailing list somewhere... ah there it is:
https://search.bikelist.org/getmsg.as...10608.0603.eml

also in the archives is that the framebulders at Trek used to stamp their work individually by stamping in a small letter next to the frame nr., so it should be possible to find out if a certain steel lugged Trek was brazed by Appel.

Sammyboy

Joe Starck is, incidentally, a bit of an ass. Anyone who reads CR, or the Framebuilders list could tell you that. Not that it's really relevant to this thread.......

pinnah

martl,

What is the "frame nr".

I own a 79 Trek and would love to know who brazed it.

Sammyboy, I heard the following about a person who was well known in a completely different industry.

"XXX is an ass. Not that this distinguishes him in this industry in anyway, mind you."

martl

"frame nr" as in frame number... sadly the person i heard this from didn't know what the ciphers meant, either. it is also suspected that the brazers used different ones each year. i guess only one of the original Trek brazers could reveil the secret.

sorry i can't help there further,
Martin

luker

J3K7O90 - that is the number on mine - a 77 TX900. I was told that Appel brazed all of the top line bikes. I don't see another number or other marking anywhere on the bike...

I don't think we ever figured out what the last three characters in the serial number actually were, though...maybe that could be some code for the builder. I went through all of the serial numbers for the steel treks (the original builders logs), and didn't get any insight.

gbarchus

I bought a Campy Super Record equipped bike from Mike Appel in 1985 in Madison, WI. It was a beautiful lugless fillet-brazed bike, which I used in an Ironman triathlon. He also painted an electric bass of mine the same color as my bike!

Gale

Starck

If the contest is which of these three can/has consistently build/built the highest quality frames, I'd say Appel has/had the edge.

U2, incidentally, has the edge. Anyone who reads CR, or the Framebuilders list could tell you that. Not that it's really relevant to this thread.......

luker

Well, I certainly appreciate mine, although the pedigree is a little muddy, and it clearly comes from the very early stages of Appel's career. I'm thinking of thinning out my collection, and this one always ends up on the keeper list.

Nice to have you here, Joe.

Starck

Sammyboy,
Is this your opinion, based solely on my posts on the two lists you cite, or have you been influenced by the opinions of others? What, preicisely, have I written on those two mailing lists to which you've formed your opinion? Or, if others contributed to the formation of your opinion, tell me howso.

kpug505

^^^Ouch!^^^

On a lighter note...........Welcome to C&V Mr. Starck

martl

For those friends of Mike Appel frames, there is currently a set of Mike Appel decals on ebay.
link is
https://cgi.ebay.com/1-SET-APPEL-DECA...QQcmdZViewItem

Martin