seypat

I'd seen it with the auto industry, but hadn't thought about it for the bike industry. If you look at what Shamino did to Hammerhead when it was acquired by SRAM, it's certainly possible. One ring to control them all.

PeteHski

It was inevitable that 105 would go electronic the second SRAM announced Rival AXS, even though Shimano were in denial for some time. I remember a few threads about that here. I can fully imagine the lower tiers going electronic too eventually, but I highly doubt it will be on a subscription model. I just don't think it fits with the market for CUES.

sjanzeir

Since when did investors give a damn about what fits or doesn't fit the market or the consumer? Try saying, "Eff'em! Let'em pay up!" in a British accent (or, better yet, an Australian one ) and see how that feels like.

seypat

They could do it for all of their lines if they wanted to. Once they eliminated the cable pull, a single designed RD could shift any speed going up or down the line. A FD is a FD. You can make one shift in almost any system. Remember, you thought my idea about them making a single system that would shift multilple speeds was stupid also. Let the record stand that I suggested that before the CUES news popped up. Then Shimano annouces the new system almost exactly as I suggested. I was actually more concerned that nobody picked up on my pop culture reference. Well, I got 3 likes on it so maybe a few did.

seypat

I think the subscription platform could be aimed at the high end groups. I'd rather pay a subscription to get a new set of wheels and a cassette with more gears and have my derailleurs/shifters reprogrammed than have to buy a whole new group. Then you'd just have to replace various components piecemeal as they wear out. Sounds like a plan.

Maelochs

My wife will never understand the real reason I drive a 20-year-old Honda which generates about as much power as I do .... that five-speed gearbox and hydraulic clutch ..... every shift is a chance at perfection, and the gear is so good, most shifts are good enough to be really satisfying. And with a 1.7 inline four, I get Lots of chances to shift.

Maelochs

Saw them on that tour, in fact. Also saw David Byrne's afro-cuban thing. Very high-quality musical entertainment IMO. But uhhh .... "pop culture"? That is from the far distant past by now, friend.

Maelochs

Yeah .... but how much would you pay each month just to be able to use your shifters?

Imagine getting all hyped up and kitted out for a long, hard ride---energy drinks, water, gels, picked your best-fitting bibs and gloves, psyched yourself for the hills ... wheel you bike out and you owe for a software update, but the office is closed until Monday morning Japan time ... sorry, no ride.

sjanzeir

I came very close to buying me a stick shift 1998 Civic EX with no power assist from a compatriot expat who was leaving the country a few months ago. By the time I mustered up his asking price, turned out he had already sold the car a day prior. Would've made a nice compliment to my 1982 Peugeot 504 wagon, but oh well.

seypat

Funny you should mention that. Earlier in the evening as I was leaving my place of business, I jumped into my vehicle and turned the key. Nothing happened. I had some place to be, so I pulled the van out of the warehouse and used it. Now back diagnosing what is wrong. The starting had been suspect for about a week. Looks like I'll be getting a new battery in the morning. Good thing I have a spare vehicle. That situation is somewhat similar to the scenario you listed. I don't have electronic shifting myself. I'm satisfied with mechanical. I would also be one of those that you describe in your scenario, but I have multiple bikes. It wouldn't be much of an issue for me. If you read the pro electronic side of the electronic shifting thread, all of the blame for a situation like that is placed on the rider. According to most, the electronic systems from each company are so good that situations like that shouldn't be a problem. I guess the update issue you describe would fall on the rider's shoulders. If I didn't have multiple bikes it would be a problem for me.

livedarklions

Whoever named them Acero and Alivio was a real Azzholo. I can never keep them straight.

sjanzeir

Daihatsu Charade Social Poze
Daihatsu Naked
Isuzu GIGA 20 Light Dump
Mazda Bongo Friendee
Mazda Scrum Mitsubishi Legnum
Nissan Big Thumb
Nissan Homy Super Long
Toyota Deliboy
Toyota Isis
Toyota Tank

PeteHski

No I don't remember saying that. Certainly not in this context. CUES seems like a good idea to me. But I don't think they will take it as far as having a single programmable electronic hardware set for all levels. Top level components will always be more premium in design, materials, quality and precision. Lower end components will be cheaper regardless of cross compatibility with the higher end. Basically like it is now, but with more compatibility across the range.

But this is well beyond what CUES is. It's not even electronic for a start.

Maelochs

I imagine Shimano will eventually have a wide-spread "Low-range" group for both road and off-road .... like CUES .... to simplify every aspect of the business. No more 7.8.9 .... just "Lo-Range" or whatever name they invent.

As Mr. peteHski points out, the high-end stuff is its own beast. There is too much money to be made there, too much "cachet" in the minds of many riders (even cyclists buy brands) to give up .... and by having tiers of higher-end stuff, they can also have pricing tiers up to the ridiculous .... "Dura-Ace---it's what the Real racers use" sort of thing.

CUES and whatever road version I am sure will come eventually, are just simplifying the lower-end and mass-sale-to-manufacturer market .... squeezing out more profit through efficiency at the price ranges where increased cost might be prohibitive.

PeteHski

Shimano is basically following SRAMs lead here. More cross-compatibility at various quality/price levels. For example SRAM Eagle 12speed covers a lot of ground from cheap to uber-expensive components, but it's nearly all cross-compatible between tiers.

ofajen

I’ve decided to defer the hand-wringing to a later date. I’m still running recently made friction shifters, a Suntour Cyclone RD and just nabbed a NOS Suntour Ultra 6 14-19 freewheel. So I expect we will still be able to source the much more recent but soon to be discontinued Shimano products for a number of years. And what Shimano is replacing them with seems to make some sense.

Otto

PDKL45

One thing from the thread: Microshift is Taiwanese; still Chinese culturally, but definitely not part of mainland China. Microshift, Sunrace and other new drivetrain alternatives are Taiwanese (democratic country/Republic of China). LTwoo and Sensah are mainland Chinese (communist country/People's Republic of China). The mainland stuff is having a moment with certain YouTubers, but the Taiwanese stuff is still much better.

That said, I think CUES looks great and I look forward to running it sometime in the coming years after my current stash of parts is depleted. I love the move to sealed bearing hubs especially and the cross compatibility of chains etc. I am sure Claris, Sora and Tiagra will follow at some stage, and the idea of common pull ratios across the board, for things like flawless road-MTB touring set ups, is awesome.

Someone pointed out the problem for shops with now obsolete inventory on their hands, but I can't see it as a huge issue. I am really interested to see what happens with 2024 bikes, due in a few months' time. I think we'll see a lot of U6000 and U4000 level stuff on MTBs and hybrids, with a bunch of U8000 stuff on European trekking bikes. Note that the Alivio-Deore-XT Shimano trekking groupsets have now gone, so there may be some long dark coffee klatsches of the soul in certain continental quarters. No more 26-36-48 XT triples, just 1x or 2x...

sjanzeir

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