Is this Judy safe? Rusted steerer.
#1
Chipper
Thread Starter
Is this Judy safe? Rusted steerer.
So I've never seen anything like this before, but the fork still rebounds really well, so I'd like to use it. Is it safe?
Big rust spot where stem was mounted.
Side view of spot.
Rear.
Big rust spot where stem was mounted.
Side view of spot.
Rear.
#2
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
The top of a threaded fork is not where the most stress is. Is there any corrosion where the steerer tube meets the fork body? That would concern me more? Is there a lot of rust on the inside of the tube?
Whether this is still safe for use depends upon... use. Are you a 250lb former D-I defensive lineman who likes to do really rough rides at high speeds downhill? Replace. Do you race bikes at high speeds over rough courses? Replace. A person of normal weight and strength who likes to ride off-road trails? You're probably ok.
The rust doesn't look too bad in pictures. I would soak the threads overnight in evaporust (pour 3" of Evaporust into a plastic cup and balance the fork upside down). Rinse, dry, and brush off any residue with a steel brush. Apply a light coat of grease to the entire thread length for protect from further rusting. You'll need a new nut and washer and probably a new race, as you've lost a little bit of thread crest. A new nut and race will have the full thread form, lessening likelihood of failure.
Assuming the inside was no worse than the outside, I don't see a likely catastrophic failure mode here. In extreme use? Maybe you hit a big rock, and the top of the steerer tube ruptures leaving the fork in the headtube. Then you get big air and the whole fork and wheel falls out. And then you land. Far-fetched. That said, there's always a higher risk if a part has some rust and corrosion. You have to make that decision for yourself - and you must assume the risk.
Anyone experience a top tube rupture?
Whether this is still safe for use depends upon... use. Are you a 250lb former D-I defensive lineman who likes to do really rough rides at high speeds downhill? Replace. Do you race bikes at high speeds over rough courses? Replace. A person of normal weight and strength who likes to ride off-road trails? You're probably ok.
The rust doesn't look too bad in pictures. I would soak the threads overnight in evaporust (pour 3" of Evaporust into a plastic cup and balance the fork upside down). Rinse, dry, and brush off any residue with a steel brush. Apply a light coat of grease to the entire thread length for protect from further rusting. You'll need a new nut and washer and probably a new race, as you've lost a little bit of thread crest. A new nut and race will have the full thread form, lessening likelihood of failure.
Assuming the inside was no worse than the outside, I don't see a likely catastrophic failure mode here. In extreme use? Maybe you hit a big rock, and the top of the steerer tube ruptures leaving the fork in the headtube. Then you get big air and the whole fork and wheel falls out. And then you land. Far-fetched. That said, there's always a higher risk if a part has some rust and corrosion. You have to make that decision for yourself - and you must assume the risk.
Anyone experience a top tube rupture?
Likes For WizardOfBoz:
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,837
Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 676 Post(s)
Liked 741 Times
in
430 Posts
If that's the extent of the corrosion, the main problem you'll have is adjusting the headset. Take it to a shop and they'll have a die to chase those threads. If too much material has been lost, you'll know it when you torque the locknut. Or the mechanic will tell you.
Likes For andrewclaus:
#4
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,986
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6193 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times
in
3,317 Posts
Not a problem. I wouldn't even chase the threads. All that does is remove material faster than the rust. Sure it makes them pretty and smooth, but you don't need pretty and smooth for this.
Put it back together.
Put it back together.
Likes For Iride01:
#5
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Likes For dsaul:
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 5,806
Bikes: 1986 Cannondale SR400 (Flat bar commuter), 1988 Cannondale Criterium XTR, 1992 Serotta T-Max, 1995 Trek 970
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1944 Post(s)
Liked 2,164 Times
in
1,323 Posts
Likes For 70sSanO:
#8
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Ah, thanks. Just seemed like a really odd word to end up on.
Likes For ThermionicScott:
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Pioneer Valley
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 328 Post(s)
Liked 738 Times
in
384 Posts
Though it’s a threaded fork, the rust spot looks to me like a threadless stem was mounted to it…
But I would probably clean it up and chase the threads and use it (with a threaded headset and stem).
But I would probably clean it up and chase the threads and use it (with a threaded headset and stem).
Likes For bboy314:
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times
in
518 Posts
As bboy314 said, looks like a threaded steerer that had a stem for threadless steerer mounted on it. I recall in the mid '90s there was a manufacturer (Barracuda) who was selling their new bikes with this configuration... I don't recall seeing any failures but it sure seemed sketchy. I worry more about this mismatched config than I do about that seemingly minor rust.
#12
I'm good to go!
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 14,986
Bikes: Tarmac Disc Comp Di2 - 2020
Mentioned: 51 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6193 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times
in
3,317 Posts
Good catch for bboy314 .
If this is being used with a threadless stem, then I'd be more worried about safety from just the threads alone being cut into the steerer tube.
A threadless stem I will think puts all of the stress of the riders pulling and bumping right there on those threads, where as a quill stem moves a lot of that force below the threads and below the top headset bearing. IMO, a quill stem is the proper stem for a threaded steerer tube.
Maybe if this is one of those steerer tubes that is made of much thicker material than others, then maybe not so much an issue.
If this is being used with a threadless stem, then I'd be more worried about safety from just the threads alone being cut into the steerer tube.
A threadless stem I will think puts all of the stress of the riders pulling and bumping right there on those threads, where as a quill stem moves a lot of that force below the threads and below the top headset bearing. IMO, a quill stem is the proper stem for a threaded steerer tube.
Maybe if this is one of those steerer tubes that is made of much thicker material than others, then maybe not so much an issue.
Last edited by Iride01; 07-06-22 at 09:18 AM.
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 13,445
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4234 Post(s)
Liked 2,949 Times
in
1,808 Posts
#14
With a mighty wind
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,592
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1087 Post(s)
Liked 862 Times
in
490 Posts
It’s like we can tell when you started riding by this.
2007.
Am I close?
Anyway, I have a formerly threaded fork whose threads were filled in with braze to make a smooth tube for a threadless setup. The diameter for a threaded steerer is ever so slightly narrower so a stem that can handle so extra pinch is needed. It’s sub-optimal.
I did eventually get the steerer cut off and a new proper one brazed on, it was a whole friggin thing. But that’s another story altogether.
2007.
Am I close?
Anyway, I have a formerly threaded fork whose threads were filled in with braze to make a smooth tube for a threadless setup. The diameter for a threaded steerer is ever so slightly narrower so a stem that can handle so extra pinch is needed. It’s sub-optimal.
I did eventually get the steerer cut off and a new proper one brazed on, it was a whole friggin thing. But that’s another story altogether.
Last edited by rosefarts; 07-06-22 at 07:55 PM.
#15
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
Actually, yeah. I got back into cycling as an adult in 2007-2008. But I probably would have been just as ignorant about MTB hardware regardless.
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,773
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 453 Post(s)
Liked 104 Times
in
87 Posts
As it's threaded, hopefully not.
For the flipchip , although you haven't shown a picture of the complete crown/steerer, as it's threaded, this would indicate that it's a very early Judy (1995/1996), and is probably a bolted crown, so if you don't consider it safe (looking at the images, it really just looks like surface corrosion and maybe needs the threads chasing as andrewclaus suggests.)
However, if it does have a SFN and has been used for threadless, would really be looking for a new/NOS/replacement crown/steerer to do the job right. Too little info in in the original post to know what is really going on.
One for ThermionicScott quite a few MTB products from the 90's had female names, forks and brakes being the major ones, some just as codes names by manufactures not being using when the product was released, some getting mainstream releases as the Judy (which is a name still in use today)
For the flipchip , although you haven't shown a picture of the complete crown/steerer, as it's threaded, this would indicate that it's a very early Judy (1995/1996), and is probably a bolted crown, so if you don't consider it safe (looking at the images, it really just looks like surface corrosion and maybe needs the threads chasing as andrewclaus suggests.)
However, if it does have a SFN and has been used for threadless, would really be looking for a new/NOS/replacement crown/steerer to do the job right. Too little info in in the original post to know what is really going on.
One for ThermionicScott quite a few MTB products from the 90's had female names, forks and brakes being the major ones, some just as codes names by manufactures not being using when the product was released, some getting mainstream releases as the Judy (which is a name still in use today)
#17
Keefusb
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 176
Bikes: 60cm 1992 Paramount, 60cm 1995 Cannondale R900 (son's bike), 1994 Cannondale H300 (mine), 1994 Cannondale H300 Killer V (wife's bike), 60 cm 1989 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra SLX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times
in
36 Posts
I would hit that spot with Liquid Wrench, PBlaster, or similar and a wire brush and brush out the threads thoroughly. Then you can try to thread the headset nut on the steerer. If it threads on OK, then you should be in the clear. If the nut doesn't thread or it binds, take it to a shop and have them chase the threads with a die or similar. It doesn't look like that rust is deep, and as others have pointed out the stress tends to hit lower on the steerer tube anyway. I would either use a quill stem, or use one of the quill adapters like the Deda model, which grips the inside of the steerer like an actual quill stem.
#18
Keefusb
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Ashland, VA
Posts: 176
Bikes: 60cm 1992 Paramount, 60cm 1995 Cannondale R900 (son's bike), 1994 Cannondale H300 (mine), 1994 Cannondale H300 Killer V (wife's bike), 60 cm 1989 Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra SLX
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Liked 57 Times
in
36 Posts
In the 90's and 2000's Profile made a carbon road fork called the "Julie"...