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Tour de France....???? SPOILERS

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Tour de France....???? SPOILERS

Old 07-09-21, 01:53 PM
  #26  
BlazingPedals
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The Tour stopped getting my attention when it became obvious that they were turning a blind eye to Lance and his doping; and as far as I can tell not much has changed since, from doping to motors. The effort to catch the cheats seems to be strictly pro-forma and only intended to catch the outliers, the no-names who place higher than expected.
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Old 07-09-21, 01:55 PM
  #27  
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More about it here https://www.bikeforums.net/professio...ans/:rolleyes:
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Old 07-09-21, 02:20 PM
  #28  
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I was wondering for a while if all the Belgians were doing things to keep Cav from winning that might not help their own chances. But if they did, it didn't work.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:27 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Because I don't follow media coverage of things all day long. Neither do a lot of people. Like yesterday, I was planning to watch the end of the day's coverage at my local during happy hour.
Still absolutely worth it - anyone who watched the final can clearly see there was no gifting here! The highlights will reinforce this as well. With the absence of Lotto, JV, Bora big sprint trains it's really wild.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:32 PM
  #30  
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I watched all of the stages so far. His first three wins were legitimate if you ask me. He really executed well during and after the lead-out. The race today? It's almost is if the other riders weren't really challenging him in the last few meters. Or maybe he was just much stronger today and it made it look that way.

I like Mark Cavendish and his quirks and aggressive style of riding. He's also an immensely talented rider and sprinter. Is he hard to beat? Oh yeah. Can he be beaten? Yes. Did he win today's race without somebody "putting their thumb on the scale"? Hard to say but that thought did cross my mind.

Should we make a big deal about it? I don't know, maybe? Eddie literally was a cannibal on a bike. His talent is the stuff of legend. Should another rider "be allowed" to beat his record without truly earning it? No. In the end I do think he won legitimately, in part, because some big gun sprinters are out of the race.

Let's wait to see what the TDF folks say and the media rumors.


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Last edited by drlogik; 07-09-21 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:32 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by 55tele
I still think the Tour de France is on a par with Professional Wrestling
I might not understand all the nuances of electric guitars, but I think any brand-new $99 Telecaster copy from Amazon sounds and plays better than any vintage Fender.

Professional bike racing is by far the hardest sport in terms of cardiovascular stress. The Tour de France is the race where the level of racing is highest. All the racers know that how hard they and their teams ride in the Tour and how successful they are in the various races within each stage determine what they'll be paid that year and the next year or whether they'll be out of a job.

Otherwise, it's exactly like professional wrestling.
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Old 07-09-21, 02:36 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by GrainBrain
Still absolutely worth it - anyone who watched the final can clearly see there was no gifting here! The highlights will reinforce this as well. With the absence of Lotto, JV, Bora big sprint trains it's really wild.
I appreciated the attempt by Cortina (Movistar) to jump early and change up the game on DQS. He got a slight benefit from Ballerini's wheel after Ballerini drifted a few meters off the front, but in the end, the experience and execution by Morkov and Cav was just too much as Cortina ran out of gas approaching the line. Cav's patience and trust in Morkov was fantastic. Philipsen simply doesn't have the firepower to compete in a drag race with Cav.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:05 PM
  #33  
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In a weakened sprint field with an incredible lead-out Cav is doing exactly what he's supposed to do.

When the organizers design this TdF they probably had "someone" in mind. Lol, that you think it's Cav. I'm guessing the French organization that designs the Tour de FRANCE might have had a certain FRENCHman in mind, perhaps? And of course they did just that as you can tell by how the first two stages were designed in a profile exactly suited to their preferred riders strengths. Work out well didn't it, since he won Stage 1, wore the yellow jersey yada-yada-yada.

At the time they designed the 2021 route Cavendish was with Bahrain-McLaren and on the verge of retirement. No, it wasn't designed for him at all. Mark was not even originally selected for the Tour anyway, so it's comical that you think it's all scripted for that dude. He's got incredible luck (Ewan out, Bennett out, etc.) and THE best lead out train in the sport.

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Old 07-09-21, 03:05 PM
  #34  
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Unless something's changed very recently, there is no profit-sharing at the TdF between the organizers and the teams. It's actually one of the aspects of professional cycling that many consider broken, the argument being that other pro sports have teams part of a league where they're united in maintaining the health of their sport, rather than being mercenaries who must secure their own financial futures year over year. There is little incentive for other teams to have one team and one rider get the majority of the press when it's a constant struggle for them to even stay solvent. Every stage without results (or more importantly, positive airtime repping sponsors) is another day that a team owner will stress out about how the bills will get paid. Especially since many sponsors have just about as shallow an understanding of pro cycling as the OP.
​​​​
Then there's the vast majority of pro riders, on short-term contracts and equally concerned about showing themselves at the biggest race for job security/opportunity. Cavendish had been driven downwards by the "what have you done for me lately" way teams treat riders until nearly exiting the sport in tears with no prospects last year, until one manager known for not sentimentally overrating riders decided to offer him a minimum contract because he felt that there was an opportunity to let him ride into the sunset without much risk. Far from expecting him to sweep up wins at the TdF. Heck, Cav barely rode with DQT's main leadout man Morkov before the race. There's just no way anyone, even at DQT, expected him to be in this situation, let alone premeditated and executed a careful plan to manipulate something as big as the Tour with willing collaborators.

Last edited by surak; 07-09-21 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 07-09-21, 03:28 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by surak
Unless something's changed very recently, there is no profit-sharing at the TdF between the organizers and the teams. It's actually one of the aspects of professional cycling that many consider broken, the argument being that other pro sports have teams part of a league where they're united in maintaining the health of their sport, rather than being mercenaries who must secure their own financial futures year over year. There is little incentive for other teams to have one team and one rider get the majority of the press when it's a constant struggle for them to even stay solvent. Every stage without results (or more importantly, positive airtime repping sponsors) is another day that a team owner will stress out about how the bills will get paid. Especially since many sponsors have just about as shallow an understanding of pro cycling as the OP.
​​​​
Then there's the vast majority of pro riders, on short-term contracts and equally concerned about showing themselves at the biggest race for job security/opportunity. Cavendish had been driven downwards by the "what have you done for me lately" way teams treat riders until nearly exiting the sport in tears with no prospects last year, until one manager known for not sentimentally overrating riders decided to offer him a minimum contract because he felt that there was an opportunity to let him ride into the sunset without much risk. Far from expecting him to sweep up wins at the TdF. Heck, Cav barely rode with DQT's main leadout man Morkov before the race. There's just no way anyone, even at DQT, expected him to be in this situation, let alone premeditated and executed a careful plan to manipulate something as big as the Tour with willing collaborators.
Nailed it.
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Old 07-09-21, 04:10 PM
  #36  
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Well . . . . it was a thought.

Just a reminder to all, NO SPOILERS, PLEASE.
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Old 07-11-21, 12:44 PM
  #37  
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Indyfabz, me too! Manayunk and Kelly Drive were part of my Sunday morning ride.
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Old 07-11-21, 01:35 PM
  #38  
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Whether you like Cav or not and whether you like the TdF or not, the closest person to Cavendish in TdF stage wins that is still riding professionally is Sagan. He only has 12 stage wins though. Don't think Sagan will get close to 34 in his remaining time as a pro cyclist.

And in the top 100 TdF stage winners, only 6 cyclist, Cavendish, Sagan, Greipel, Froome, Alaphilipe and Nibali that are still actively riding. And all the others like Cavendish are near the end of their riding career. So no one will come remotely close any time in the foreseeable future.
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Old 07-11-21, 03:13 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Pinelander
Indyfabz, me too! Manayunk and Kelly Drive were part of my Sunday morning ride.
One Saturday before the race I and a bunch of rag tag locals rode behind 7-11 on Kelly Drive when they were out stretching their legs. Think it was ‘87. Possibly’88. They were cruising along chatting at around 23 mph while the rest of us were struggling to keep contact. Funny scene. I was relatively new to the sport and didn’t even own a jersey. Quite a thrill. Later that morning I did the same with Coors Lite.
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Old 07-12-21, 02:50 PM
  #40  
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The two top sprinters in the world are out with injuries. Also, comparing Cav to Merckx is pure hype for TV ratings. Phil and Bob need a reality check and not focus on their pay checks.
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Old 07-13-21, 05:26 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by 55tele
I've been casually watching the Tour and all the hype about Mark Cavandish. So he won Stage 13 today and the press is gushing that he has now equaled Merckx's number of stage wins at 34.

Does anyone share my skepticism about this great achievement? Maybe I'm over skeptical, but it almost looked like a setup for him to win.....

I wouldn't put it past Tour organizers to pull a stunt like this to get PR traction for the tour...

What say all you race experts out there?

Am I full of it?
You have to watch a lot of road racing to understand what's going on. The rules (written and unwritten) are unlike any other sport. The first time I watched it I had so many questions and it didn't make sense. Took a couple of years of watching road racing to be able to appreciate what's going on. I don't think any of it is staged or "set up". Too many athletes, teams and sponsors involved to allow any sort of fix. MC is just in the zone.
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