License and Insurance
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 95
Bikes: TREK FX3
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
License and Insurance
Recently read an article that a major city near where I live, Toronto, is contemplating making cyclist have a license and insurance to ride in the city. I can understand, but basically think the license is a money grab. If the monies collected where strictly used to create or support existing bike lanes great. Plus if I was to want to ride in the city for a weekend get away what type of license/permit would be required and how/where would you get it. Insurance is another kettle of fish. Would you require a plan similar to your car? It just seems that to implement both requirements the financial impact on the rider could be rather harsh and may cause some riders to abandon their bikes and head back to cars/transit. Does your local area have such requirements and how does it work for you. Thanks.
#2
Senior Member
There's not a whole lot of damage one can do on a bicycle, so requiring liability insurance like with a car doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'm probably in a tiny minority but I don't think a license should be required to drive a car, let alone ride a bicycle.
I'm probably in a tiny minority but I don't think a license should be required to drive a car, let alone ride a bicycle.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,235
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18410 Post(s)
Liked 15,530 Times
in
7,326 Posts
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,235
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18410 Post(s)
Liked 15,530 Times
in
7,326 Posts
The Milwaukee law seems to apply only to residents of the city. I would bet the other laws apply only to residents.
#5
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 95
Bikes: TREK FX3
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
As long as both pieces were kept to a very low price it may be a non issue. However, being mandated by local government and including premium loving insurance companies one has to expect the worse, say $20 a year for a license and $100 a year for insurance would not surprise anyone. Enforcing the law would indeed be rather difficult by the sheer magnitude of people riding bikes versus extremely low numbers of bike riding police.
#6
Senior Member
So according to their logic, we should license and require insurance for pedestrians.
They are bunch of freeloaders that use our sidewalks and streets and don't pay anything for it.
and they run in front of my car and when I splatter them on the windshield they don't pay for the damage to my car.
Pedestrians are the problem not car drivers.
They are bunch of freeloaders that use our sidewalks and streets and don't pay anything for it.
and they run in front of my car and when I splatter them on the windshield they don't pay for the damage to my car.
Pedestrians are the problem not car drivers.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
Broken grill, bent hood and broken windshield, I could imagine repairs could run in excess of $5000. Probably not a huge sum, but not insignificant.
The bigger issue might be personal health care bills that could be far more expensive.
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
As far as licensing.
License riders?
License bikes?
Two different issues.
Are you going to license 3 yr olds? Make sure they know the rules of the road before taking their push bikes out on the street? Or is it the push bike that needs to be registered?
Maybe have a rider safety class and registration for 14 yr olds (pre driver's license)? Actually, that would be a good thing to do as a mandatory class in school. Also bike maintenance.
Does one differentiate between the riders that ride < 100 miles a year, vs those that ride > 5000 miles a year?
My old bike was stickered twice.
The local PD sticker was voluntary. They registered the serial number (actually, we stamped a number onto the frame since it had none).
I believe the college campus also required registration. I apparently didn't register it when I was in private on-campus housing, but it appears as if I registered it when I shifted to off-campus housing. I hope they've kept the records, otherwise that registration is useless. 30 years for the college campus, and probably 35 years for the local PD.
I suppose doing a one-time minimal fee registration isn't bad when one has a single bike. But, it could be a bit of a pain for multiple bikes.
It might help a bit with bicycle theft tracking and recovery, but would need to be fairly widespread across the country to be effective. Getting bikes sold and not re-registered could be a pain problematic.
Ideally it would be a self-supporting program, with administration and fees being equal, but I could imagine high administration costs, and a slippery slope for increasing fees as governments look for more tax revenue.
As it is, I'd rather see the governments encouraging as many cyclists to get on the road as possible, which means making it as easy to get on the bikes as possible. I.E. no added fees.
License riders?
License bikes?
Two different issues.
Are you going to license 3 yr olds? Make sure they know the rules of the road before taking their push bikes out on the street? Or is it the push bike that needs to be registered?
Maybe have a rider safety class and registration for 14 yr olds (pre driver's license)? Actually, that would be a good thing to do as a mandatory class in school. Also bike maintenance.
Does one differentiate between the riders that ride < 100 miles a year, vs those that ride > 5000 miles a year?
My old bike was stickered twice.
The local PD sticker was voluntary. They registered the serial number (actually, we stamped a number onto the frame since it had none).
I believe the college campus also required registration. I apparently didn't register it when I was in private on-campus housing, but it appears as if I registered it when I shifted to off-campus housing. I hope they've kept the records, otherwise that registration is useless. 30 years for the college campus, and probably 35 years for the local PD.
I suppose doing a one-time minimal fee registration isn't bad when one has a single bike. But, it could be a bit of a pain for multiple bikes.
It might help a bit with bicycle theft tracking and recovery, but would need to be fairly widespread across the country to be effective. Getting bikes sold and not re-registered could be a pain problematic.
Ideally it would be a self-supporting program, with administration and fees being equal, but I could imagine high administration costs, and a slippery slope for increasing fees as governments look for more tax revenue.
As it is, I'd rather see the governments encouraging as many cyclists to get on the road as possible, which means making it as easy to get on the bikes as possible. I.E. no added fees.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
Insurance? Make my day.
Let's assume it's like car insurance, i.e., a basic liability policy. The cheapest way for most of us to buy it, would be as an add-on to our car insurance. Riding a bike instead of a car reduces our liability exposure, so our rates would become cheaper as insurance companies compete for our business.
Go ahead and let car drivers subsidize me.
Let's assume it's like car insurance, i.e., a basic liability policy. The cheapest way for most of us to buy it, would be as an add-on to our car insurance. Riding a bike instead of a car reduces our liability exposure, so our rates would become cheaper as insurance companies compete for our business.
Go ahead and let car drivers subsidize me.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
Insurance? Make my day.
Let's assume it's like car insurance, i.e., a basic liability policy. The cheapest way for most of us to buy it, would be as an add-on to our car insurance. Riding a bike instead of a car reduces our liability exposure, so our rates would become cheaper as insurance companies compete for our business.
Go ahead and let car drivers subsidize me.
Let's assume it's like car insurance, i.e., a basic liability policy. The cheapest way for most of us to buy it, would be as an add-on to our car insurance. Riding a bike instead of a car reduces our liability exposure, so our rates would become cheaper as insurance companies compete for our business.
Go ahead and let car drivers subsidize me.
#11
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,972
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,535 Times
in
1,045 Posts
Still waiting on the familiar rant about little 5YO Susie on her tricycle being pushed around by low life b-crats, that this type of post about a vague unreferenced sky is falling proposal elicits.
#13
Senior Member
If it's Toronto looking at licensing again, all one has to do is go into the city of Toronto website and read about the history of trying to license cycling. I would remind our own City Councillors to do the same.
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 186
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
The other day I forgot my wallet and I was like oh crap how am I going to drive, but I turned the key and my truck started right up and it operated as if my license was in there with me. This is Texas though so things may be different else where. I hope no one else catches on or else we will have a lot of unlicensed / uninsured drivers down here. I don't even want to imagine.
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
The other day I forgot my wallet and I was like oh crap how am I going to drive, but I turned the key and my truck started right up and it operated as if my license was in there with me. This is Texas though so things may be different else where. I hope no one else catches on or else we will have a lot of unlicensed / uninsured drivers down here. I don't even want to imagine.
No license, and no driving
#16
Been Around Awhile
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,972
Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,535 Times
in
1,045 Posts
When? Never, unless people are required to have a different driver's license for each car driven to include rental, borrowed or work cars; or one driver's license that will be good for starting every car.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18373 Post(s)
Liked 4,508 Times
in
3,351 Posts
Bank machines are now recognizing cardless access with cell phones (apparently, I haven't tried it), and other countries have been using smart phones for credit card access for quite some time now.
It is common to program new vehicles to recognize garage door codes. So, a card or phone could be similarly paired with the vehicle. And, perhaps managed. Add a code into your kid's car that it shuts off at midnight, or with an auto-driver, has an automatic return home at midnight, with or without the kid. They'll learn.
Of course, the Prius has a key override, but that may eventually be replaced with software. It is hard to say in the future whether one might turn to key cards, or phones for similar access.
I suppose I'm digressing a bit from licensing. Bike access has other issues than car access. There are, however, electronic keyless locks for bikes too. However, it is a lot harder to restrict a person from hopping on a bike and riding.
Restricted bike parking? To park in certain areas of the city, one would need to buy a bike parking permit? Don't park there, and no permit needed.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,085
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 440 Post(s)
Liked 264 Times
in
162 Posts
If a bike is considered a vehicle and I have a drivers license, why should I need another license? I might buy into a bike license if you did not have a drivers license. Now what do they about people that are not old enough to have a license?
#20
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Lincoln Ne
Posts: 9,924
Bikes: RANS Stratus TerraTrike Tour II
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3352 Post(s)
Liked 1,056 Times
in
635 Posts
Recently read an article that a major city near where I live, Toronto, is contemplating making cyclist have a license and insurance to ride in the city. I can understand, but basically think the license is a money grab. If the monies collected where strictly used to create or support existing bike lanes great. Plus if I was to want to ride in the city for a weekend get away what type of license/permit would be required and how/where would you get it. Insurance is another kettle of fish. Would you require a plan similar to your car? It just seems that to implement both requirements the financial impact on the rider could be rather harsh and may cause some riders to abandon their bikes and head back to cars/transit. Does your local area have such requirements and how does it work for you. Thanks.
#21
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,635
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4733 Post(s)
Liked 1,532 Times
in
1,003 Posts
Since one is not required to have a drivers license, I assume the purpose of a bike license is for the police to know who they're ticketing so they're more likely to get their money. I'm still trying to figure out if my dog license allows him to ride a bike
#22
Senior Member
Normally I wouldn't be for it, but here in Gainesville Floriduh the case is for a 'drivers' license. 2/3 of the adults here on bicycles are reckless to say the least. Go on the west side away from the university, with no bike lane and a MUP, see how many idiots are salmoning and weaving down the road. And few with any visibility either. And it happens all over. There was one morning coming in crossing town at 5 am. Some idiot riding down the road (2 lanes each way) in the middle of the lane facing traffic, no lights whatsoever on an unlit street.
So a bicycle drivers license - YES! And hopefully the cops enforce it and the laws of the road, as it would give a better means of ability to ticket offenders.
So a bicycle drivers license - YES! And hopefully the cops enforce it and the laws of the road, as it would give a better means of ability to ticket offenders.
#23
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Worcester, MA, USA
Posts: 411
Bikes: Dawes Lightning DLX, 1988 Klein Performance, 1991 Peugeot Safari, 1985 Raleigh Alyeska, Carrera Phantom, 1973 Raleigh Record
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Liked 129 Times
in
92 Posts
The insurance, in particular, would really suck for people who ride because they can't afford a car.
#25
Senior Member
There's already a history of bicycle licence studies all over major North American cities.
So I wouldn't mind bicycle licenses provided all of the following are offered:
1) Optional;
2) paid by motorists during drivers licence and plate renewals;
3) no fault- all fault automatically attributed to the nearest motorist(s);
4) municipal, provincial and federal tax breaks;
5) perks offered by merchants and hotels on top of other promotions and membership prices you already are entitled.
6) Mandatory road test every two years for motorists;
7) install separated bike lanes wherever motor vehicles are legally allowed to drive;
8) bike racks at all public and commercial places.
So I wouldn't mind bicycle licenses provided all of the following are offered:
1) Optional;
2) paid by motorists during drivers licence and plate renewals;
3) no fault- all fault automatically attributed to the nearest motorist(s);
4) municipal, provincial and federal tax breaks;
5) perks offered by merchants and hotels on top of other promotions and membership prices you already are entitled.
6) Mandatory road test every two years for motorists;
7) install separated bike lanes wherever motor vehicles are legally allowed to drive;
8) bike racks at all public and commercial places.
Last edited by Daniel4; 07-30-17 at 09:20 AM.