Johnny Rad

Hi! I'm hoping with a changed setting or two, I can have a happier relationship with my Garmin 530 turn by turn map guidance.

If it matters, I use mapmyride and upload the GPX to my Garmin 530. It is up-to-date with updates from Garmin Connect. And 99% of my mapped rides are on the road.

Trying to improve two issues:
1. Want more warning for upcoming turns - sometimes I get a fair warning on the screen while other times it's a last second thing. (I have my Garmin set to change to a map screen with each pending turn. I don't like to ride with the map screen "always on.")
2. When I miss a turn, my Garmin wants to backtrack to my missed turn with a u-turn rather than re-routing me to the route with a bias against back-tracking. Is it a waypoint thing, as in not enough way-points programmed on my route in mapmyride?

For the record, I figured out how to have my Garmin NOT make me hit every waypoint. That was a big win. Hoping for a couple more wins.

datlas 

I don’t know about Garmin Connect, but if you download a .FIT file from ridewithgps you can select how much lead distance before you get instruction to turn, up to 100m I believe.

sw20

I hated the reroute feature on my 530 as all it would do when missing a turn was to constantly get me to u-turn! IMO this isn't rerouting, I turned the reroute option off and now it just picks up when I am back on the route further down the line.

Steve B.

Re-route chooses the shortest route back to the course, if it kicks in immediately after an error, a U-turn is the best option. The device is not going to re-calculate an entirely different route. I would turn it off, look at the map and choose your own. This is one of those times when having a larger device with a map on a screen where you can pan and tilt is helpful.

The device default for TBT is to pop up with the TBT screen at 1/10th mile before the turn. Mine works this way. Sometimes if there are a number of turns in quick succession, the device lags in displaying the TBT screen.

Iride01 

Knowing where you want to go and what the route is goes a long way. Reliance and the GPS means you may never learn how to recognize your own visual turn cues and how to get anywhere.

When you get use to doing your own navigation a brief look at the route and a map prior to the ride should be all you need. I suppose to many that have become dependent on GPS guidance that seems a impossibility. But it's not. Even in new places it's a simple thing. But you might need some practice and re-learning what you've forgotten.

njkayaker

The Edges don't use waypoints for navigation. I guess you are talking about the places you are clicking on in the route planner. These aren't really "waypoints" and these don't get included as anything special in the file. They are included as track points along with all the other track points that trace-out your intended path.

The Edges have two types of navigation: (1) "track following" and 2) "turn guidance". You can use one or the other or both at the same time.

:"Turn guidance" (Garmin's term) is the big white arrows. "Turn guidance" announcements occur 0.1 miles (about) before the turn. You can't change this. (If turns are closer than 0.1 miles, you should get the next turn announcement quickly after you make the turn.

The "turn guidance" instructions are generated on the device by the device following the track in the file and picking the roads and paths (on the map installed on the device) the track appears to follow. This is what is being done when the screen shows "calculating". This actually produces a second track line (light magenta). The first track line traces the track in the course file (it looks dark purple). Usually, these two lines are in the same place but you'll sometimes see them deviate.

The maps on the Edges are based on Openstreetmap (OSM) data. Turn-guidance will work a bit better if you use OSM maps to plan the route.

The other type of navigation ("track following").is simply issuing notifications when you move too far away from the track. Related to "track following" is "course points". Course points are kind of like waypoints. If you have "course points" enabled for the course, you'll get a pop-up with a black background with an icon and a short turn description when you reach the coordinates of the course point. Some route planners provide the option of moving the course points earlier in the track (so the pop-up occurs before the turn). This is what @datlas was talking about (it's a paid feature of RWGPS). Course points are only found in FIT or TCX files.

Note that it doesn't really matter what course planner you use. It also doesn't matter what file type (FIT, TCX, or GPX) you use (except for "course points").

GhostRider62

Two things solved that problem for me.

1. I use 100 or 150m notice and better brake pads
2. I use a field on my main screen, "Distance to Next". This was the key in me not missing turns. If I see 9.4, I know I have a long time on this road whereas if it is 0.6 miles, I am prepared to turn soon.

I never re-routes, so, can't help with that.

Johnny Rad

Thanks for sharing. Sounds like you're saying I can change the distance before the Garmin announces the next turn in TBT?

Appears some are saying it's fixed at 0.1mi and I think you're saying you changed yours from 100m (~0. 6mi) to 150m (~0.1mi).

EDIT: Ah, ha. I see said the blind man (me). Appears 100 and 150m are settings w/FIT files... but, it's even the longer 150m setting isn't longer than the default Garmin 0.1mi setting.

Johnny Rad

Sounds like what I've been experiencing on "short TBT announcements" ... thanks for the insight.

njkayaker

Navigation will be more reliable with the map screen on (and looking at it periodically). It's not that unusual to just miss an announcement and, sometimes, the unit won't announce when you might expect it to. With the map screen, you often know about turns before hand and can see that you are off course if you miss a turn. (Course points are particularly easy to miss.)

There are some events where riders are required to follow the course. So, using U-turns to get back on course is appropriate. U-turns are also often the fastest way back on course if you catch it in time.

The newer units (1030+) are better at showing alternative routes when you go off course. If the 530 doesn't do this, you can sometimes pick an alternative route by looking at the map. That technique is much easier, though, on units that have touch screens. (It's not a "waypoint thing" at all, as I said earlier. The Edges don't use waypoints.)

GhostRider62

When I am following a route, the Garmin knows where the turns are. You can configure one of the datafields to "Distance to Next", which is simply the distance to the next turn. I do long distances where there might be 300-400 turns. I'd miss one or two before I put that field onto my main screen. This has nothing to do with the 100 or 150 warning. That is in the Fit file and that determines when the popup window opens showing the turn graphically. Sorry if I am unable to explain this better

njkayaker

I explain the difference in post #6.

GhostRider62

Thanks

Sorry for the dense question but if I am doing a long ride like a brevet, which type of file should I download. I like the popup turns. Sometimes, the Garmin does not give me the popups. I assume I have made an error somewhere. Maybe I downloaded the wrong file type. In urban areas that little popup map is nice.

njkayaker

All of the file types contain a track *. That's the basis for navigation. For the map pop up (with the big white arrows), you need to have "turn guidance" enabled.

For the little pop-ups with a black background (heck, it might be white on some units) and a little icon (these are "course points", you need either a FIT or TCX file (not all FIT or TCX files will have course points).

--------------------------------------------
* RWGPS has a "GPX route" export option: this will not work on the Edges!

You also need to have "course points" enabled in the settings for the course.

PeteHski

I find the default (Edge 530) turn warnings are pretty much ideal. So I'm wondering how fast the OP is approaching these turns??
Only issue I have is that occasionally I get no turn warning at all (happens typically once or twice on a 100 km route). I presume this is a limitation/glitch of the turn guidance algorithm and/or local mapping.

As for re-routing I switched that off because I'm usually following a specific fixed route that I don't want to change. If I miss a turn and get the "off-course" warning I just u-turn and back-track to the course.

GhostRider62

Thanks.

What often happens is the white popups are fine for part of the ride and then they now longer pop up. It is only on long rides with lots of turns. Instead of the big popup, I will get the little pop-ups with a black background instead. I wonder now if turning the Garmin 1030 off and back on would restore the popup feature. Maybe a buffer for upcoming turns is filled when loading and it has a size limit? This isn't a huge problem, I just really like seeing the popup when I am tired and on unfamiliar roads.

njkayaker

How long are these routes? The turn-guidance should work for routes as long as 200 miles.

The turn guidance (big white arrows) should be working for these too.

Note that you can see the list of these turns by tapping on the text at the top of the map screen. If you see the turns later in the route, they should pop-up. That is, if you see the late turns in this list, there's enough space.

There is some limit to the route length/complexity (the "buffer/space" thing) but you'll get a calculation error if that is the issue.

When I was doing rando rides (with the ancient 800), I would split the route up anyway. This makes reloading a route (if something stops working) easier/faster.

GhostRider62

On the PA 400k this year, it happened. It also happened on the NJ300k (the hilly one with a lot of turns). Usually fine on 200k.

Thanks for the tip on seeing the turns in the list. I'll check that but my next long rider isn't until January 14th. Thanks again. I should be able to figure this stuff out, but sometimes I think my brain is getting old, too.

njkayaker

I'm not sure how much testing Garmin does at those distances. Centuries are kinda normal and 200ks are close. I haven't heard of issues with longer rides on newer units. So, I think they should work.

It's a bit more set-up work, but I'd probably split the long courses up.

(Apparently, the ancient 800 had issues recording rides longer than about 180 miles.)

There are a few subtle things about how the Garmins work that are hard to figure out. I spent a fair amount of time looking at them (much more time than people usually spend).