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'72 PX-10 rehab/650b conversion

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'72 PX-10 rehab/650b conversion

Old 05-03-22, 07:45 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
I've got to run now, but I'll see if I can find the numbers..... But I believe I determined that with 650B x 42 tires the widest point was about 303mm from the center of the wheel..... And I think the outer edge of 700c wheel is more or less where the widest point with a 650bx42 tire will be....
I appreciate that! but of course it would be best to 100% know the specs before investing in rims, etc. The good news is that the bike's owner is bike touring overseas right now, so it's not like I need to know today.
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Old 05-03-22, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
Yes, it is knowable..... somewhere! Apparently there was a blog post somewhere that had all the info in one place but it's gone now. I found the info I needed in various places and I could swear I wrote it all down somewhere, but now....

A 650B wheel will most definitely fit a frame made for 700c, as the 650B is a smaller diameter. The question is how much extra clearance for wide tires will it give you, and is it enough to be worth it. And what will you need to do as far as brakes. It gets a little more complicated as the width of tire you run will determine where exactly the widest point will be, as well as your overall diameter.

I've got to run now, but I'll see if I can find the numbers..... But I believe I determined that with 650B x 42 tires the widest point was about 303mm from the center of the wheel..... And I think the outer edge of 700c wheel is more or less where the widest point with a 650bx42 tire will be....
Ed Braley's 650Blog has disappeared, but it lives on in the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20210411...sion-guidlines
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Old 05-03-22, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
Ed Braley's 650Blog has disappeared, but it lives on in the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20210411...sion-guidlines
Perfect! Thanks!
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Old 05-20-22, 08:46 AM
  #54  
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I'm really, really loving this bike- comfortable and just downright fun to ride. I've enjoyed getting reacquainted with friction shifting and 1/2-step+granny gearing. Initially I just used some generic brake cable housing for the short bits at the ends of the derailleur cable runs as (I thought....) is was all I had on hand. But I found some leftover lined derailleur cable housing in a bin and swapped it out the other day. I wasn't really expecting much, but I'm kind of surprised at the noticeable improvement in the feel of the shifters. I've got some Retrofrictions on the way and can't wait to get those on. Some nicer SPD pedals on the way, too. I've been caught out in downpours a couple times and have realized the necessity of mud-flaps, at least on the front fender. The Brooks Pro that was original to the bike was OK, but the B17 that was on my Cannondale is more comfortable so I made the swap. I may go back the the Pro and see if it (or my rear end...) won't break in a little more. I wish the frame were just a little bigger. I've got the seatpost and stem pretty much at their max, but it fits and feels good. Other than some adjusting after the first couple rides I haven't really felt the need to move anything- unlike my Cannondale which I seem to constantly make little tweaks to.
Absolutely no regrets about the 650b conversion, or the time, $, sweat and occasional episodes of frustration with the rehab/build!

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Old 05-20-22, 12:02 PM
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I feel much the same way about my 650B conversion. It showed promise at first, then after a lot of refinement (build thread here), it became my favorite geared bike to ride -- fast, comfy, and capable. Still, it handles so differently from my fixed-gear MTB that the first couple rides each spring are strange...

BTW, are you using a standard B17 or a Narrow? If you like the slender width of the Pro, you might prefer the B17N over the standard. That's been my experience.
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Old 05-20-22, 01:00 PM
  #56  
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I'm digging half step and granny on the new to me 720 I'm riding.
your bike is just beautiful and your seat and bar height look pretty darn appropriate from here
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Old 05-20-22, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
BTW, are you using a standard B17 or a Narrow? If you like the slender width of the Pro, you might prefer the B17N over the standard. That's been my experience.
Standard B17. I'm not sure if it's the narrower width, or the stiffer leather of the Pro that isn't working for me. While the PX-10 was cosmetically challenged (I suspect mainly from being knocked around in a garage/storage space) I don't think it was ridden much at all, and the Pro was never 'broken in'. I do like the looks of the darker leather and the copper rivets, so I'll probably put it back on the PX and see if it (or me) breaks in sufficiently.

& BTW, your Bianchi 650b looks great (and it's a great build thread)! Though the Valgan with the Super Vitus 971 frame I picked up a month ago is too small for me, it needs wheels so I was thinking of going 650B with it.... But it's got a nice set of Mafac Competition brakes & I'm pretty sure there's enough clearance for 700 x 35 tires and fenders so I'll stay with 700c. But I suppose I've been bitten by the bug....

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Old 05-20-22, 01:32 PM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I'm digging half step and granny on the new to me 720 I'm riding.
your bike is just beautiful and your seat and bar height look pretty darn appropriate from here
It definitely works and feels good, which is really what matters- I just wish it had a bit more of the 'French fit' look of a little larger frame!
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Old 05-20-22, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
It definitely works and feels good, which is really what matters- I just wish it had a bit more of the 'French fit' look of a little larger frame!
I get the French fit thing. I have recently sized up 1/2 to 1 inch on bikes I like to ride. It's amazing to me what a little difference can make.
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Old 05-20-22, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I get the French fit thing. I have recently sized up 1/2 to 1 inch on bikes I like to ride. It's amazing to me what a little difference can make.
I've gone up a full 5 cm (2 inch) in frame size since my racing days. My "custom" racing bike from back then is barely rideable unless I put a ridiculous-looking upjutting stem on it. At my new bigger frame size, bars level with the saddle is now easy even with classic stems with short quills. Plus I like the way they look, especially with fat 650b tires and full-coverage fenders.

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Old 05-21-22, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bulgie
I've gone up a full 5 cm (2 inch) in frame size since my racing days. My "custom" racing bike from back then is barely rideable unless I put a ridiculous-looking upjutting stem on it. At my new bigger frame size, bars level with the saddle is now easy even with classic stems with short quills. Plus I like the way they look, especially with fat 650b tires and full-coverage fenders.

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Comfort AND style!
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Old 05-21-22, 11:20 AM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
Comfort AND style!
AND speed AND (pretty much) go-anywhere capabilities! Just back from the most challenging ride to date on the PX-10. This past winter was harsh on the gravel/dirt seasonal roads around here! A couple pretty steep climbs that were terribly rutted, gullied, loose-rocky and uneven, and a long up-and-down stretch that was rutted and slick mud- through state land, so there shouldn't be logging, but it sure looked like the aftermath of a brutal logging operation. Couple times I thought, hmmm, tires with a bit of tread might be nice here as the rear slipped a little with every down-stroke grinding up a sloppy ascent, but never had to walk it. The ride was somewhat less fun for my regular riding friend on an early 2000s aluminum & carbon Trek with 700x23 tires! Had to stop and dig out the caked mud around his brake calipers a couple times... but he's 10 years younger, and in better shape than I am, so he did OK. The Valgan I'm working on is more or less his size so I'm going to use it to try to convert him to vintage steel & fatter tires & fenders (pretty sure I can get at least 700x35c tires to fit..)!
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Old 05-21-22, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
AND speed AND (pretty much) go-anywhere capabilities! Just back from the most challenging ride to date on the PX-10. This past winter was harsh on the gravel/dirt seasonal roads around here! A couple pretty steep climbs that were terribly rutted, gullied, loose-rocky and uneven, and a long up-and-down stretch that was rutted and slick mud- through state land, so there shouldn't be logging, but it sure looked like the aftermath of a brutal logging operation. Couple times I thought, hmmm, tires with a bit of tread might be nice here as the rear slipped a little with every down-stroke grinding up a sloppy ascent, but never had to walk it. The ride was somewhat less fun for my regular riding friend on an early 2000s aluminum & carbon Trek with 700x23 tires! Had to stop and dig out the caked mud around his brake calipers a couple times... but he's 10 years younger, and in better shape than I am, so he did OK. The Valgan I'm working on is more or less his size so I'm going to use it to try to convert him to vintage steel & fatter tires & fenders (pretty sure I can get at least 700x35c tires to fit..)!
I had been using 700x32 paselas for touring up to about three years and did a 650b conversion on and old Miata 912. I couldn't believe how much better unpaved rail trails were with 38s. My two touring bikes now wear 700x35. Not quite 38 but it's a real nice ride. My 650b is an Austro Daimler. The fatter tire thing is for real.
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Old 05-21-22, 01:17 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I had been using 700x32 paselas for touring up to about three years and did a 650b conversion on and old Miata 912. I couldn't believe how much better unpaved rail trails were with 38s. My two touring bikes now wear 700x35. Not quite 38 but it's a real nice ride. My 650b is an Austro Daimler. The fatter tire thing is for real.
When I was first getting into biking in the 7th or 8th grade, Austro-Daimlers were the objects of much desire on the part of my brother and me (& the one friend we had who had some interest in bikes). Man, I remember the smoked-chrome, and a kind of metallic rose models hanging up out of reach at a nearby shop. Someday I'm gonna realize my childhood desires and have one of those, I swear. And if I'm going to be able to ride it it'll have to get the 650b treatment. A PX-10 was on the wish-list way back then too, though in terms of style the A-Ds were 'it'.
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Old 05-21-22, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
When I was first getting into biking in the 7th or 8th grade, Austro-Daimlers were the objects of much desire on the part of my brother and me (& the one friend we had who had some interest in bikes). Man, I remember the smoked-chrome, and a kind of metallic rose models hanging up out of reach at a nearby shop. Someday I'm gonna realize my childhood desires and have one of those, I swear. And if I'm going to be able to ride it it'll have to get the 650b treatment. A PX-10 was on the wish-list way back then too, though in terms of style the A-Ds were 'it'.
Mine only had space for 28s so the 650b conversion was really pretty easy.
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Old 05-21-22, 07:18 PM
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Really nice build ehcoplex I have in-house the same PX-10 frame (or PX-10 LE, as it became later) from the same year, in the same color, only 63.5 size, that I'd like to build up as a 650B, because the clearance for rear tire is greater than on any other (vintage, road) frame I've owned. It doesn't appear to have any sign of the Reynolds 531 seat tube and fork blade decals, but all the other instances I've seen of similar bikes have those decals in various states of degeneration, and the details are exactly like those on your frame and another found on the internet (and attributed to 1972), so I'm satisfied it's legit, despite its bare weight of 3.2 kg. What's also nice is that the 700C brake reach is pretty short (52.5 mm front and 55 mm rear), so I can reach a 584 ERD rim using something other than a Mafac RAID (like, a Weinmann 750, just). I have a few questions though:

The fork crown itself doesn't leave a lot of clearance between the castings' pointed tangs that hang down a bit: like 41 mm, and only 48 at the face of fork blades just below those. Did you have any problems with fitting the front fender there?

Did you respace the rear triangle to fit 7 speeds, or just pry them apart to fit an increased OLD? I'm assuming 126 mm, correct?

What size seatpost diameter has worked for you? I measured 26.4 mm, but most French Reynolds-DB-tubed bikes (I have a few such) are 26.6. Maybe that's why the frame seems on the heavy side.

What's the range on your freewheel?
Thanks!
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Old 05-21-22, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl
What size seatpost diameter has worked for you? I measured 26.4 mm, but most French Reynolds-DB-tubed bikes (I have a few such) are 26.6. Maybe that's why the frame seems on the heavy side.
!
Do French built frames have smaller seat tube O.D. ?
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Old 05-21-22, 10:02 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by branko_76
Do French built frames have smaller seat tube O.D. ?
Metric Reynolds had a 28mm seat tube I think.
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Old 05-22-22, 06:02 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Charles Wahl
Really nice build ehcoplex I have in-house the same PX-10 frame (or PX-10 LE, as it became later) from the same year, in the same color, only 63.5 size, that I'd like to build up as a 650B, because the clearance for rear tire is greater than on any other (vintage, road) frame I've owned. It doesn't appear to have any sign of the Reynolds 531 seat tube and fork blade decals, but all the other instances I've seen of similar bikes have those decals in various states of degeneration, and the details are exactly like those on your frame and another found on the internet (and attributed to 1972), so I'm satisfied it's legit, despite its bare weight of 3.2 kg. What's also nice is that the 700C brake reach is pretty short (52.5 mm front and 55 mm rear), so I can reach a 584 ERD rim using something other than a Mafac RAID (like, a Weinmann 750, just). I have a few questions though:

The fork crown itself doesn't leave a lot of clearance between the castings' pointed tangs that hang down a bit: like 41 mm, and only 48 at the face of fork blades just below those. Did you have any problems with fitting the front fender there?

Did you respace the rear triangle to fit 7 speeds, or just pry them apart to fit an increased OLD? I'm assuming 126 mm, correct?

What size seatpost diameter has worked for you? I measured 26.4 mm, but most French Reynolds-DB-tubed bikes (I have a few such) are 26.6. Maybe that's why the frame seems on the heavy side.

What's the range on your freewheel?
Thanks!
Yeah, that pretty much looks like my PX-10, though it is a little odd that there is absolutely no trace of the Reynolds decals. But maybe as they deteriorated a PO scraped the remains off for aesthetic reasons?

I have a bit of frame-size envy of yours, but actually 63.5 would probably be a bit too big for me. It sure would achieve the classic ‘French fit’ look, though. I should’ve weighed my PX-10 frame when I had it all stripped down, but I didn’t.

I stuck with the Simplex (steel) seat-post that is original to the bike, so didn’t give much thought to the diameter. I just measured now, and depending on where I take the measurement from the post I get anywhere between 24.0 and 24.6….. The post was really pretty scratched up, but I doubt I could’ve taken .6mm off in polishing (though the chrome plating is extremely thin in spots now). Sheldon lists 26.2, 26.4 & 26.6 for the PX-10, depending on the year! Best to measure with a caliper and/or test fit.

I spread the rear triangle to 126mm with a DIY threaded-rod/washers/nuts setup, re-straightened the drop-outs and checked the alignment with the string method.

I did have to dimple the fenders to fit the fork (& likewise the chain stays), and I’ve got the fender right up against the bottom of the crown (actually not quite- the little TA rack has a support that goes between the bottom of the fork crown & the fender, so it eats up a little space). This series of blog posts is really helpful for fender installation. I also dispensed with the little bolt-in rear dropout spacers and have the rear wheel all the way back in the slots (& have to deflate the tire to get it in and out).

After I already had the Raids (I was lucky and got a decent deal on a set on eBay.fr) I ‘inherited’ a box of random old bike stuff that has some Weinmann Vainquer calipers in it & eyeballing it, it looks like they’d work.




13-28 7 speed freewheel with 45/42/28 rings (Red Clover Triplizer). I maintain a pretty high cadence & it’s very hilly where I live so this setup is working quite well for me. Occasionally I wish I had just a little more at the top end if I’m flying down a hill with the wind at my back, but most of the time I just coast knowing I’ve got another big climb after I get to the bottom.

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Old 05-22-22, 08:00 PM
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Thank you! That's a lot of help, and I appreciate it.
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Old 06-22-22, 04:41 PM
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Sweet Retrofriction Goodness!

Been having a run of bad eVILBay luck lately, in one case what seemed like a great deal on some Retrofrictions turned into something less than a 'deal'.... A seller on eBay.fr had two clamp-on sets for sale for a decent price, and I thought I was being clever buying both and combining shipping to land a good deal. Turned out both sets were incomplete (missing springs, missing bushings, washers, etc....). I don't think it was intentional on the sellers part, and they refunded the $ on one pair and let me keep both. Even with that, after finding & buying the parts necessary to make both sets functional it all ended up being not much of a deal at all. Still, I've got a couple sets of Retrofrictions now. Finally got one set put on the PX-10 and got in a good ride today, and....... Wow! These things deserve the high regard they're held in! Smooth, light touch, just really nice to shift with. So easy and quick to micro-adjust a shift. Shiny & sparkly, too. And I swear the bike is 15% faster now!

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Old 06-22-22, 07:33 PM
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52telecaster
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
Been having a run of bad eVILBay luck lately, in one case what seemed like a great deal on some Retrofrictions turned into something less than a 'deal'.... A seller on eBay.fr had two clamp-on sets for sale for a decent price, and I thought I was being clever buying both and combining shipping to land a good deal. Turned out both sets were incomplete (missing springs, missing bushings, washers, etc....). I don't think it was intentional on the sellers part, and they refunded the $ on one pair and let me keep both. Even with that, after finding & buying the parts necessary to make both sets functional it all ended up being not much of a deal at all. Still, I've got a couple sets of Retrofrictions now. Finally got one set put on the PX-10 and got in a good ride today, and....... Wow! These things deserve the high regard they're held in! Smooth, light touch, just really nice to shift with. So easy and quick to micro-adjust a shift. Shiny & sparkly, too. And I swear the bike is 15% faster now!

I have retro frictions on my trek 720 bartends. The one shifter I like better than suntour barcons.
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Old 06-22-22, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster
I have retro frictions on my trek 720 bartends. The one shifter I like better than suntour barcons.
As I was sorting out this rehab I was really leaning toward & looking for some Retrofriction bar-ends, but man are they $$$....! In the meantime I used the Criterium shifters and got (re-)used to down-tube shifters. I pretty much only shift with my right hand, and even with the Criterium shifters have become pretty proficient shifting front & rear (semi) simultaneously- now with the Retros it's super smooth and easy to do! But I'm still going to keep my eye out for some Retrofriction bar-ends..
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Old 06-22-22, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ehcoplex
As I was sorting out this rehab I was really leaning toward & looking for some Retrofriction bar-ends, but man are they $$$....! In the meantime I used the Criterium shifters and got (re-)used to down-tube shifters. I pretty much only shift with my right hand, and even with the Criterium shifters have become pretty proficient shifting front & rear (semi) simultaneously- now with the Retros it's super smooth and easy to do! But I'm still going to keep my eye out for some Retrofriction bar-ends..
I rode the 620 I was setting up for a friend. It has down tube shifters on a 21" frame and while the seat was way too low for me it was surprising how easy it was to reach the shifters. On a 24" frame it's not as easy for me. I can see using them on a smaller frame.
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Old 07-09-22, 08:37 AM
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Aside from really technical single-track/mountain-bike trails, I feel like I can pretty much go anywhere on this bike... and with style, comfort and pretty decent efficiency. Sooner or later I'll sort out a decaleur, so the rando bag is a little more secure (but TBH, I've been on some pretty rough roads and it's done fine with the cinch-cords to the bars...), but other than that I feel like the bike really needs nothing.
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