Seattle Forrest

Meece

znomit

What is the point of this thread?

I’ve fallen a few times. The first was the traditional “just forgot” about three rides in. Another on the MTB trying to ride around an obstacle where I should have dismounted. The last one was after a long stint on MTB pedals I switched to my road bike and my muscle memory couldn’t handle the change in twist effort.

You should try MTB SPD. They’re easier to clip out of.
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buy...spd-vs-spd-sl/

znomit

Or maybe the bikeforum approved pitbulls are a better recommendation given the tone of the first post.
Pitbull Bike Pedal Wicked Fastest Road Bike Pedals and Clip System

Polaris OBark

I once decided I wanted to try some nice blingy Ritchie pedals, so I clicked into them, rolled up to a gate, and tried to get out. I was trapped. I had no trouble at all exiting my XTR pedals, but these things were impossible. I managed to grab the gate and not fall, but the only way out was to pull my foot out of my shoe and then manually crank the cleat out of the pedal. I had to do that for each of the two.

I kept those pedals in a box for a couple of years and then donated them to the local Bike co-op. I put a note in the box so the next victim at least would have a heads-up.

In the previous 25 years I rode everything from XTR pedals to cheap Nashbar POS pedals, and never had experienced anything like that. (I've fallen over a few times, but not because the pedals had no functional exit strategy.)

These were all mtn bike 2-bolt SPDs, FWIW.

Maelochs

Biggest change when I went form decades on flats (for commuting I found them personally essential ....a big safety issue in seriously bad urban traffic) to the past couple decades clipped in, was seriously circularly spinning, particularly when trying to get my overweight body with its weak legs, asthmatic lungs, and waiting-to-quit-again heart up hills. Spinning very smooth circles changes the muscle loads and while it seems (I don't do all the metrics and don't care) to use more oxygen over a span of time, it also seems to offer immediate respite when I am having trouble pushing the pedals ....

I haven't read the studies, but I can feel the difference, and it has gotten me up a bunch of hills that would have stopped me otherwise. it may be that the continuous power application, if lower overall, is more efficient on a hill where there is an energy loss due to gravity between each power stroke---sort of how spinning high revs can be more efficient while climbing because you slow down between power pulses when trying to push a huge gear at low revs (not to mention frying my usually sore knee) ---- really controlled spinning with both legs engaged throughout the stroke seems to get the power down with less loss, even if there is less power.

Again, i have no charts or graphs and frankly don't care. I ride to ride and I ride for me (I am a selfish son of a something I guess) and I am not trying to sell my methods as "better" than anything except my own less good methods.

Also .... I am not saying that just because i have 30 years' experience with one system and more than 20 years experience with the other, that i have any valid data .... just preferences.

I do this weird thing ... I validate my own life, by actually living it .... thus I don't have to go to others seeking validation.

cyclezen

no one here is 'hating' you; it's not that big a deal. Cycling is a technical activity, with varying levels as one gets to the high limits. 'Learning' aspects of riding and equipment,whether Mtn Downhill, or TT or Trials (look it up...) are not things which come automatically because any of us can get down the road without falling too often. You didn't bother to go thru a reasonable 'learning curve'.
I feel for you, that you injured yourself - but it really shouldn;t be unexpected or blame placed on the tools.
You came to 'Road' with questions on improving your triath performance - you got suggestions. No one here is a 'Mom' or 'Dad' to other posters (ok, maybe there are a few 'parents' of their 'kids' , both BF posters... LOL!).
YOU have to accept that anything you do or try is totally in your control. Not practicing, to a strong level of competence, getting IN and OUT of these pedal systems, before taking them for a ride on traffic'd roads is a very basic and sometimes serious mistake of judgment. Consistently bad judgement is a problem.
Let me guess, the shoes and pedals you spoke of in a prior thread - them being so big that you had space to stuff a sock in the front, along with your foot, are the LOOKs...
Your ride is always YOUR RIDE, there's no one else to blame. You made all the decisions which led to these consequences.
Are 'clipless systems' for everyone who rides a bike? Of course not. But, it's fairly certain that any triath competitor in the same age group as you, who's at or near the top of the leader board, is riding with some form of clipless. You stated you wanted to get up there.
You be you, but getting 'better' requires a whole bunch of different things, some of which is leveling the equipment thing.
Some cyclists ride because they like the 'riding', on anything they chose. Some like certain equipment or clothes or colors, or whatever. It's all good and they do cycling - Their own ride - how they chose. You may think there's elitism; but that's a mistake. Because how, why, what you ride is totally on you, always. Being assertive is a good thing, but the danger of becoming overly-assertive and narrow-sighted is a danger. Be a student, in everything. A broad thinking, inquiring student of everything we do, will rarely lead us astray. There's always more to learn.
Ride On
Yuri

jaxgtr

I have clipless on the Stages Smart Bike that my wife and I use in my bike cave\office, and my wife whom is really not comfortable using clipless is far more comfortable with them now since she has been using them inside. Being able to master the clip in and out without the danger of falling really took away her fears of having her feet locked in. I've never forced the pedal issue on her, but she has a bad habit of poor foot position on the flats. She mentioned recently that she might be ready to try using them outdoors when it cools down when she will ride outside.

Troul 

could try them out on the rollers.... just make sure there's padding on the floor surrounding the equipment. lol

jaxgtr

OP: GCN, while not a high flaluten research firm, did a compare on flats versus clips:

jaxgtr

Shimano has these things, the adapters will allow you to use your 3 bolts with a 2 bolt cleat. Not just SPD's, but I believe all 2 bolts.

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-Spare.../dp/B09F5YLR5Y

jaxgtr

Yea I got rid of my rollers a while ago when I got my Kickr.

rob214

fwiw I do see more riders with Look road pedals having trouble clipping out or (mostly) clipping in, but that seems to be an issue particular to that make/model, not with clipless pedals in general.[/QUOTE]


I switched from Spd to Look after about 5 years of using Spd's and the look clip in/out is so much easier and less work, I'll never go back to Spd. the look cleat is way cheaper to replace as well. love mine, feels firm and stable

Koyote

Last time I checked a style manual, they still specified "data is" -- but I've been out of the academic publishing game for a while now, and it looks like standards have changed.

In other words, you is correct.

Koyote

If we're riding clipless to emulate the "big boys," then why are they riding clipless? Those are the people who actually "live and breathe cycling" and earn their living from it; why would all of them be choosing something that doesn't make them more efficient?

Polaris OBark

The datum is a single measurement.
The data are a set of measurements.
The data-set is a collection of measurements.

Many people use "data" interchangeably with "data-set". Since we aren't writing in Latin, a little bit of flexibility is appropriate.

British people say stuff like "the crowd are going wild." It isn't grammatically wrong. It is purely convention. (They invented the English language, so it is very hard to make the case that it is grammatically or in any other way incorrect.)

Koyote

I don't disagree with you, but genejockey 's post got me to read a few grammar and style manual sites -- and while it is still being debated, it looked (to me, anyway) like the majority specified "data are" when referring to multiple studies or multiple data points. Nonetheless, if a student turned in a thesis tomorrow in which a collection of data was (were?) referred to in the singular, it would pass muster with me.

Koyote

By the way, if this is true, why did you buy a pair of cycling shoes and try not one, but two different types of clipless pedals on your bike?

You're not "immune to the hype." You just kept falling over, and you have to justify your failure.

Polaris OBark

The collection of data (aka a data set) is a singular entity, because "collection" is a singular, and "set" is a singular.

"The set are complete" sounds wrong. "The set is complete" or "the data-set is complete" sounds correct.

seypat

Again, best of both worlds. You can ride flats, or clipped in, or each on the feet separately. Best way to learn and experiment. Best way to get through an intersection from a stand still. Foot up clipped in. Foot on the ground to the flat side until you're through the intersection, then clip in on the other side.

Koyote

I think genejockey 's point is that we were referring to data from different sets -- i.e., from different studies. So, the plural form ("data are") was appropriate.

But again, I think this is one of those usage preferences that is still open for discussion, even if it looks (to me, anyway) as if most style guides and gurus are going in a certain direction.

rsbob 

“ I hate meeces to pieces”. Let’s debate the plural of Meece.

Have to agree the OP came to argue and even though there are excellent points made about learning how to properly use cleats in a safe environment and learning to downshift early on hills have fallen on deaf ears. People come to boards like this to learn from people with more experience and not to berate them because you personally disagree. This is not a good way to make friends or add credibility to future posts or discussions. I can understand getting mad because you fell, but hell we all fall when we first try them, just like learning to ride a bike, but we didn’t learn to ride a bike going up or down hills but on safe flats and with a fair amount of practice. Blame the equipment all you want but your lapse in judgment by not learning how to use them in a safe environment and learning to properly downshift before stalling is more at fault. I liken this to never having driven a stick shift and jumping into one for the first time and thinking you know how to drive it and then stalling it and stalling it trying to go up a hill and then declaring that all cars with sticks are bogus and that anyone who drives one has been duped and is an idiot because they want to be like race car drivers. It’s not the equipment its you and your attitude. And if you can provide one link to a credible study by a research institute or university about the lack of efficiency or efficacy compared to flats, I will be more than happy to read it.

Pedal what want but shaming everyone else who doesn’t agree with your point of view that have ages of experience just makes you look bad.

Rant on but your credibility is shot. And I could care less what pedals you do or do not use. To each their own.

How’s that flame suit holding up? You knew you would stir up a hornets nest but still you did it. All I can ask is why? Because you wanted to vent? With an audience of mostly men, that doesn’t go over real big.

genejockey 

A collection of data, sometimes termed a dataset is singular, but there can be multiple datasets. And when we refer to an accumulation of different sets of data from a number of studies, we say "the data say", not "the dataset says".

genejockey 

The data from a single experiment is also the plural form. As in "The data are consistent with the hypothesis".

Dean V

I have never had an issue with being clipped in.Regardless of any debate about efficiency if you are actually racing it is a major advantage for when significant surges in power are required and so is the stability of having your feet stay put.But if none of that is important to you then do what works for you, as I am sure you will.

bampilot06

What’s the OP views on going Tubeless? Asking for a friend.