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Parking in Amsterdam

Old 01-30-23, 04:58 PM
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Parking in Amsterdam

Sorry but I can't figure this out. There is a new huge bike parking garage underwater in Amsterdam. Check it out.

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Old 01-30-23, 06:02 PM
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Old 01-31-23, 03:50 AM
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That's really quite impressive and well thought out. Secure storage for 7000 bikes, with bike repair shop, underneath the central train station.

The Dutch are really putting the rest of the world to shame.
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Old 01-31-23, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Herzlos View Post
That's really quite impressive and well thought out. Secure storage for 7000 bikes, with bike repair shop, underneath the central train station.

The Dutch are really putting the rest of the world to shame.
The main train station is a zoo, this was much needed
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Old 01-31-23, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
The main train station is a zoo, this was much needed
I haven't been to Amsterdam in many years but this statement certainly was true then (early 2000s). It looked like large numbers of bikes had been abandoned with dead-flat tires, bent rims, cannibalized parts, etc. And I wondered how an actual bicyclist could actually extract their bike from what appeared to be just a big jam.
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Old 01-31-23, 11:02 AM
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I love the skylights where you can see the waters swirling above. They don't have earthquakes there, do they?
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Old 02-01-23, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by KerryIrons View Post
I haven't been to Amsterdam in many years but this statement certainly was true then (early 2000s). It looked like large numbers of bikes had been abandoned with dead-flat tires, bent rims, cannibalized parts, etc. And I wondered how an actual bicyclist could actually extract their bike from what appeared to be just a big jam.
Still true it looks like, my daughters were there just before Christmas and knew I'd like some bike infrastructure pics


The low tech alternative - an above water Bike Barge.


Really cool but I think I'd be a little nervous ... I'd prefer not to see the water above me in such an expansive place ​​​​​​​
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Old 02-03-23, 03:19 PM
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Shows what can be done when the government works for the benefit of the people instead of the oil and auto companies as in the United States. Think of the millions of dollars saved by all the people who do not need to buy and maintain and store an automobile, and the much cleaner air for them to breathe.
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Old 02-03-23, 07:24 PM
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How bad does the weather get in the winter there? is it anything like North Dakota, Montana, Michigan, Minnesota. Buffalo? Let me tell you it takes a whole lot more than a parking garage for bicycles to ride one for commuting in the winter in these places.
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Old 02-03-23, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Bikerider View Post
Sorry but I can't figure this out. There is a new huge bike parking garage underwater in Amsterdam. Check it out.
Since there is no image or link to the image, there is nothing to check.
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Old 02-04-23, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Calsun View Post
Shows what can be done when the government works for the benefit of the people instead of the oil and auto companies as in the United States. Think of the millions of dollars saved by all the people who do not need to buy and maintain and store an automobile, and the much cleaner air for them to breathe.
that place is tiny..no need for cars..U.S. is huge
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Old 02-04-23, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider;[url=tel:22790128
22790128[/url]]that place is tiny..no need for cars..U.S. is huge
IIRC the average car trip in the states was less than 6 miles.

Ive lived car free in MI, upstate NY, OH, and HI but utility cycling is better and easier here in Europe since itís seen as a valid form of transportation. The Dutch still own cars and campers and the like, they invade Germany, Italy, and Croatia a couple times a year.

Changes to how we work, live, and move are coming and theyíre coming quickly
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Old 02-04-23, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Flip Flop Rider View Post
that place is tiny..no need for cars..U.S. is huge
The US and Europe are geographically similar in size (inso much as it matters in this context.)

The US chose to spread out horizontally basically guaranteeing car dependency. Other places chose human scale infrastructure design & city planning. Making car ownership a choice.

The Netherlands was indistinguishable from any major US metro until around 1960-1970. Then they collectively said: "This sucks" & chose something different. That's right. All of the bicycle & transport you see in pictures of the Netherlands has been built since the 1960's...& they are financially solvent.

I urge you to become familiar with how your parents & grandparents made decisions that limited your freedom, mobility & chained us all to high cost infrastructure maintenance bills for infrastructure that fails at it's primary design purpose: moving people.
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Old 02-04-23, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
How bad does the weather get in the winter there? is it anything like North Dakota, Montana, Michigan, Minnesota. Buffalo? Let me tell you it takes a whole lot more than a parking garage for bicycles to ride one for commuting in the winter in these places.
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Old 02-04-23, 10:55 AM
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A bike garage for 7,000 bikes sounds like it could be a long walk to/from where you park your bike, do they have a shuttle service?
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Old 02-04-23, 03:39 PM
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I lived nearly car free for 20 years in Michigan and it was no picnic. Commute to work was 30 miles round trip and it took a lot of grit to do it 6 days a week in the pouring rain, 20 degree temps, white outs, ice storms, etc. It is not for everyone, nor should it be.
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Old 02-04-23, 04:32 PM
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The Dutch are really putting the rest of the world to shame.
Have you read in the news what they are doing to their farmers? In that respect, they are not exactly "putting the world to shame". They are; however, showcasing a very well designed bike infrastructure, that this underground bike garage is part of but the extremely high taxes are paying for all it.
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Old 02-04-23, 05:38 PM
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Perhaps a more honest assessment of Dutch as referenced by a previous post, is that Oulu puts the rest of the Netherlands to shame.

We live 1 mile from the grocery. I take my bike there for most trips year-round, however my wife refuses to go by bicycle, opting for the automobile because it is easier, not because there is no bike lane to get her there. By the way, the narrator in that video is a condescending moron.
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Old 02-05-23, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
A bike garage for 7,000 bikes sounds like it could be a long walk to/from where you park your bike, do they have a shuttle service?
Here's a follow-up video showing the bike garage in use and the several ways to access the area. The travelators (bike escalators) are especially cool. The large blueish ceiling lights are not glass windows to water above as I previously thought

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Old 02-05-23, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
By the way, the narrator in that video is a condescending moron.
His humor is a bit subtle. But, yeah. He lays it on a bit thick in that video.

Essentially the point was: Yes, getting people to have options other than driving in places like the frozen tundra that is North Dakota requires more than a parking garage. It requires treating bicycles like a valid form of transportation & serving the transportation network accordingly.

He has a point: If school children can do it there, why is it impossible for adults here? I can understand how that can be a bit grating and come off as condescending when the only infrastructure available is none at all. Or what is provided is inadequate, isn't serviced, or prioritized to meet the needs of the citizens. The idea that you, the individual, *could* ride your bike in the winter with nothing more than a jacket & a toque seems impossibly foreign, alien. Condescending, because with American Exceptionalism, if you could, surely somebody would've thought of it & people would do it.

We can do better. Fortunately we do have the power to change that. The video shows what can be done when city budgets are not blown up by the unsustainably high cost of prioritizing automobiles.
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Old 02-05-23, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
IIRC the average car trip in the states was less than 6 miles.

Ive lived car free in MI, upstate NY, OH, and HI but utility cycling is better and easier here in Europe since itís seen as a valid form of transportation. The Dutch still own cars and campers and the like, they invade Germany, Italy, and Croatia a couple times a year.

Changes to how we work, live, and move are coming and theyíre coming quickly
My minimum car ride is 6+ miles, 2 of it up a 6% hill.
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Old 02-05-23, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
My minimum car ride is 6+ miles, 2 of it up a 6% hill.
I live in Europe and my average car trip is 147 miles, so my reaction is thatís averages.
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Old 02-07-23, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by drlogik View Post
Have you read in the news what they are doing to their farmers? In that respect, they are not exactly "putting the world to shame". They are; however, showcasing a very well designed bike infrastructure, that this underground bike garage is part of but the extremely high taxes are paying for all it.
Bicycle infrastructure is the cheapest infarstructure. We have had a right wing government for over a decade now so taxes for ordinary people have gone up too far, but in general you pay for things through taxes Americans tend to pay privately for. Government often works more efficient and cheaper so there's not much difference with what you end up with for free choice spending.

Originally Posted by base2 View Post
The US and Europe are geographically similar in size (inso much as it matters in this context.)

The US chose to spread out horizontally basically guaranteeing car dependency. Other places chose human scale infrastructure design & city planning. Making car ownership a choice.

The Netherlands was indistinguishable from any major US metro until around 1960-1970. Then they collectively said: "This sucks" & chose something different. That's right. All of the bicycle & transport you see in pictures of the Netherlands has been built since the 1960's...& they are financially solvent.

I urge you to become familiar with how your parents & grandparents made decisions that limited your freedom, mobility & chained us all to high cost infrastructure maintenance bills for infrastructure that fails at it's primary design purpose: moving people.
That's not entirely correct. The Dutch were moving in the American direction until the 70's, but many cities used to be fortress towns which were compact. They embraced cycling in the early 1900's because the whole counry is pretty compact, so the bicycle was a life and society changer. villages and cities got connected, rural people could go to the beach and city people could go camping in the woods. A private associaton build most of the cycle paths in the country side. Basically because of the German occupation, mass car use came very sudden and very strongly, when lots of people were still cycling, but more things came together at that time.

It's not really a European thing. It's the Netherlands, Denmark had a similar thing going on to a lesser degree, and then there is the rest, with a country like Germany having done some positive things in the margins of a car centered country, while Britain is a mess. These are very different societies and cultures and that matters.
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Old 02-07-23, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Stadjer View Post
Bicycle infrastructure is the cheapest infarstructure. We have had a right wing government for over a decade now so taxes for ordinary people have gone up too far, but in general you pay for things through taxes Americans tend to pay privately for. Government often works more efficient and cheaper so there's not much difference with what you end up with for free choice spending.


That's not entirely correct. The Dutch were moving in the American direction until the 70's, but many cities used to be fortress towns which were compact. They embraced cycling in the early 1900's because the whole counry is pretty compact, so the bicycle was a life and society changer. villages and cities got connected, rural people could go to the beach and city people could go camping in the woods. A private associaton build most of the cycle paths in the country side. Basically because of the German occupation, mass car use came very sudden and very strongly, when lots of people were still cycling, but more things came together at that time.

It's not really a European thing. It's the Netherlands, Denmark had a similar thing going on to a lesser degree, and then there is the rest, with a country like Germany having done some positive things in the margins of a car centered country, while Britain is a mess. These are very different societies and cultures and that matters.
I appreciate the nuance.
It does make sense.
For a collective action there must, most certainly be a fair degree of cultural pre-disposition towards that action. Cultural inertia, so to speak.

For the record, I am well aware that each European country has it's own diverse & rich culture. I in no way meant to imply cultural homogeneity in land area comparisons between the United States & the continent of Europe. On the contrary, the team work & collaboration between wide & diverse groups is quite remarkable. I can't help but wonder if that is the real stumbling block when Americans say: "We can't do that here."

The "we're too big & wide for non-automobile mobility" argument American defeatists trot out falls a little flat, IMO. Obviously, it can be done.

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Old 02-07-23, 12:55 PM
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Well stated, Stadjer,

I do have a follow-up question: considering The Netherlands is a master at harnessing water along with Venice, how do underground structures stay dry? I know Venice floods periodically, I was there when it did, from high tides, etc. How does your country manage the water for underground facilities and your low proximity to the ocean? From an outside observer it would seem to be a constant battle to stay out front.
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