Ultron

Hey guys looking for some insight into your racing expertise.
I've been a member here for years but I mainly lurked on the fixie and single speed forum to learn how to fix my old bike.
I've been road cycling on and off for 7 years and recently have wanted to get competitive with it after seeing what real cyclists look like. I had a decent Raleigh single speed in high school to get around on and after I dated a girl who lived by the beach I saw legit (Lycra wearing) cyclists day in and day out for a few months on the the strand( the bike paths along the beach in the South Bay). At the time I was in a tank top and skinny jeans. Eventually I fell in love with riding sold my paintball **** and upgraded to the Lycra with Scott Speedster 20, an aluminum bike with a carbon fork and mostly full shimano 105. I thought I was hot **** and a within a few short weeks I was able to stomp everybody I saw on the little 20 mile bike path. Being the competitive ******* I am I sign up for a race. With my little **** eating grin I sign up for a race in 3 weeks. For the first two weeks I ride like normal 6 days a week 20 miles a day. I thought I was a machine. Then I meet a guy I can't beat. He's in a bright ass orange team kit with a Blacked out Venge and just rips my legs off. I try to hold his wheel at about 23 mph then after about 3 minutes I get dropped and no matter hard I tried to close the gap he just became a smaller and smaller orange speck. That was my first red flag. I get home a broken man. I scour the internet and do my first round of research. I read dozens of articles and blog posts and eventually I find a blog telling me about the group rides in the area. At this point I had never ridden in a group larger than 4. I join the next flats and fast group ride, the NPR ride in the South Bay, where a (sometimes) giant group does almost race pace laps around Westchester Parkway right by LAX. I got dropped the first lap on the fast side. Disappointment. Then I catch back on the next lap they come around and I barely hang on by drafting for the first time. The I get dropped again at the mad dash at the end. The only thing comforting was when I talked to a friendly guy named Scott and he said that this was the fasted ride around that has some pro level riders in the mix. My hopes were up and actually made me think I could do it. Two days later I start my first crit and get dropped immediately. I didn't warm up at all and I didn't realize how fast the crit race would start. I try my hardest to catch back on but I'm stuck going their speed but half a lap back for 9 or 10 laps. The race coordinators pull me. I was defeated, I never wanted that to happen again. I stayed for the days racing and saw what a real competitive cyclist looks like. I talked to some racers and they saw me and said I should join some group rides and I did just that. Climbing rides killed me and after a few weeks I was spending a lot more time with my girlfriend and eventually I only rode like 4 times a month. Fast forward a few years with less and less riding And one day out of nowhere my Scott was stolen out of my garage and I was devastated. I didn't ride for a few months after I started nursing school and quit working but wanted to get back into it. I bought a 1979 bike with Vintage dura ace and rocked that on group rides. I was ridiculously broke but I fell back in love with cycling. I "upgraded" to a 1987 Specialized Allez and it really was a lot smoother and lighter along with being only 1 pound away from the Scott Speedster 20. I've been rocking that for a few months and have gotten relatively fast and fit compared to before. I'm 20 pounds lighter and have broken all my PRs from before when I owned the aluminum bike. I've been riding with local Clubs and on group rides and have gotten a lot faster and I no longer get dropped on the flats rides. I haven't joined a club yet but I've talked to a a lot of people in them. One thing I hear a lot is them saying I should get a new bike. I honestly can't afford one, being a broke ass student, but I've been itching to race again and redeem myself from that embarrassing DNC. Do you guys or any of the guys in your area race on vintage steel? Or steel at all? I never see steel on group rides expect for the largest of groups and the one random guy. But that one random guy usually isn't a racer. I'm sure it's plausible for track but I was just wondering if guys you ride with or race with race on and compete with steel. I plan on racing this season so we'll see how it goes.

TLDR;
- I've been riding for a while but not at a competitive level.
- I have had an aluminum bike (Scott Speedster 20)
- That **** got stolen and Now I'm riding a 1987 specialized allez which is lugged steel with downtube shifters.
- I smashed all my old PRs and have been riding group rides on the steel and now I wanna race on this bike.
- Do you guys see other racers riding steel, wether it's vintage or not?
- I know it's possible in theory but which CAT of racing could I get to before it becomes a barrier to progress?

UmneyDurak

spectastic

i used to do group rides on a vintage bike, and it suuuuuckkked when I needed to shift to cover an attack or something, and it takes me an extra second to do so. That moment of hesitation can be a big deal. when i'm in a race, I shift all the time. So main things I would address first is to get brifters and clip in pedals (if you haven't already). other than that, geometry might be an issue too for the long run, because the modern bike geometry is quite different from vintage stuff.

rubiksoval

Go race the bike. That's what cat 5 is all about. My only concern would be you riding in close quarters with little experience and having to take your hands off the bars to shift. This is something that can be alleviated somewhat by riding in lots of groups (which is what all newer racers should be doing anyway), and being smart about when to shift (looking up the road and anticipating gears).

Anyway, lots of Tour de France winners and the like rode on steel bikes with downtube shifters. I'm not convinced it's going to hold you back too much, except maybe in certain situations where it'd be very advantageous to shift while you're standing (either in sprints or attacks).

You could also possibly replace the downtube shifters, though at that point once you start upgrading one part you'll likely have to upgrade others, and it'd probably just be cheaper to get a cheap, used 11 speed 105 bike or something so you wouldn't have to worry about drivetrain issues.

Edit: what spectastic said.

kensuf

I had a friend that was successful enough as a 3 that he upgraded to cat2 racing on an old steel frame with downtube shifters. Sometimes it's not about the bike.

Radish_legs

there's an older guy in the Dallas scene that races on steel with downtube shifters. I think he's been pretty successful.

tommyrod74

I think what you should be asking is "does anyone race on vintage equipment?"

I race on a modern steel bike (Gunnar Roadie) with modern components, it's 16.7 lbs with race wheels and Ultegra (and no real efforts to keep it light), and it's a great race bike.

The biggest differences between it and your Allez are the shifting, brakes, wider rims/tires, and overall weight (a chunk of it likely in the steel fork/quill stem/threaded headset front end of your Allez).

I agree it's likely less expensive to find an aluminum race bike on the used market with great parts than to upgrade the Allez.

topflightpro

I think there are ample examples of people racing very successfully on old steel bikes. I know I've seen it.

As mentioned, the downtube shifters do present a challenge. You will be shifting slower than others, but that is something you can learn to over come. You also need to make sure you are comfortable changing gears when in a group.

But as a new racer, the bike will not be your biggest limiter.

mattm

a guy won a cat 2 crit here on a steel bike with downtube shifters.

go for it.

Radish_legs

I actually just read your entire post.

I would say don't worry about anything until you have found out whether you like racing.

Find group rides that your local Cat 4 types do. That will give you an idea of your fitness compared to the local racers. If you are getting dropped on group rides where they are chatting with each other, you will know you have a ways to go.

On technology, my steel road bike has a sora groupo. So I can't shift if I'm in the drops. Would not be ideal for racing where you spend all/most/a lot of your time in the drops. But probably still easier and safer than messing w/ downtube shifters.

caloso

I raced my 86 Gazelle in a Cat 3 race when my main race bike was out of commission. It did not hold me back.

Ultron

Thanks for the replies guys! Some damn good information!

I'm pretty good at shifting now especially in a group, at least on flats, going fast uphill is another story when I'm barely holding a guy's wheel and have to shift once more. I usually just opt to stand and go at it that way instead of trying a frantic shift under load. The frame itself is designed by David Tesch, who is renowned for making race oriented frames. I'm pretty sure the frame angles are 74 and 74. It felt as responsive as the Scott Speedster in turns and in general, but I don't really know what I'm looking for.

Hell yeah guys! That's what I wanna hear about! Everyone around here in the South Bay is pretty loaded and they ride some pretty expensive bikes. The only people I see on steel at all are usually a lot older gentleman enjoying an epic steel Colnago or Pinarello. They certainly aren't looking to race on them or at all it seems.

Doge

When?

Anyway I didn't read the whole OP. But basically - no. Nobody at the elite level races on steel.

gsteinb

That wasn't the question.

kensuf

2008/2009. Back when points expired every 12 months.

He did upgrade to an aluminum frame and SRAM rival after he became a 2.

Ultron

Hmmmm
Would it be more worth it to upgrade the groupset or the wheelset?
The groupset it has now is Suntour Sprint which was their best gruppo at the time. It actually shifts very well but I was wondering if a new wheelset can help lose some weight and gain some performance.

rubiksoval

Nope.

You won't be able to run new wheels with your old components. And you're not going to be able to run new components with your old wheels.

This is where you need to just look for a new/used bike. You will definitely spend more money trying to upgrade it and at the end of the day you'll still have an extremely outdated bike.

I bought a brand new Felt on ebay for $1500, and I routinely see very nice used bikes for under a grand. I wouldn't waste a dime on trying to upgrade your bike, honestly.

Again, I don't see this as performance so much as convenience in certain situations which may/may not affect performance.

Personally, I usually shift 1-3x when I stand up to sprint or attack, and I routinely run an 11-28 cassette for crits and road races with any sort of elevation so I can go from a 53x11 to a 53x23 and cover a helluva lot of terrain without having to shift upfront or change my cadence drastically.

Doge

You're right.

I SEE many races a year. I've not seen a steel being raced in the Cat 4,3,2,1 - just a couple times in juniors. People do ride them and sometimes warm up on them.

I saw a 15-16 kid show up to race ~2014 and was please he was so popular with the other kids with his steel frame. He was nowhere to be seen in the race. That is juniors, but Cat 2-3 level at San Dimas Stage Race. So while it is not just the bike - that was a data point. I expect in some local crits he could have hung.

Cat 5 - I don't see many races. I see them line up and there appears to be wider ability difference. I think steel would work fine to start and that is kinda the point of a Cat 5 - to get started.

You can often get good deals at races. Racers are always upgrading. Do a few Cat 5s and then you'll know.

Ultron

Oh man I didn't realize that :l

Would something like this
(Reynolds solitude wheelset)

https://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product2_10053_10052_7000000000000001797_-1

Work with something like this (sram 7speed cassette)

https://www.rei.com/product/737175/sram-pg-730-7-speed-cassette?

And like some cassette spacers or something?

LAJ

No.

HTupolev

Probably, but you might need to re-space your frame for the new wheels to fit nicely.

Relevant:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/361558-retro-roadies-old-frames-sti-s-ergos.html

mollusk

Race on a bike that fits best and don't worry about what it is made out of.

I loved my 2002 steel Lemond Zurich frame for racing. It fit me like a glove.

softreset

Madison-Genesis raced on steel until a couple of years ago. They're a Pro-Continental squad.

theblackbullet

cat 1 on steel here

Ttoc6

The Snyder on your PedalRoom? That bike is gorgeous.