jlippinbike

Last year I considered getting a copy of the Boston Montreal Boston 1200k route to study it and see if I'd like to ride it. A RUSA member from Maryland has a copy of that route online at RWGPS. After a pretty thorough review I determined I did not like the route. The overnights were not spaced out per a 400-300-300-200 scheme. And there did not seem to be enough rest stops open 24/7 for my liking. I'm aware of only one other long brevet in the New England region - the Downeast 1000k that was run back in 2015 before I became a randonneur. I found a copy of that one on RWGPS, too. But because of the area in New England where it exists I figured it would not have enough rest stops open 24/7 for my liking. I do not recall doing an in depth study of that route, though.

Anyway, by mid-March of last year I decided to design a 1000k route that was a simple out and back starting and ending in Connecticut. I had originally hoped to have it pass through Rhode Island, but that did not happen. The overnights are spaced out per a 400-300-300 scheme, and there are plenty of rest stops open 24/7 for my liking. I call the route the New England Traverse 1000k. See https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35551945. I was wondering what others think of this route. Would it make for a nice long RUSA permanent? Or should it be made into a RUSA brevet that an RBA would have to offer? It passes through CT, MA, NH, VT, and NY. After I finished designing this 1000k route I wondered if it would be too difficult to modify it into a 1200k version. The result was a route I call the Six State Climbfest 1200k. See https://ridewithgps.com/routes/35551952. It hits the same states as the New England Traverse, but also hits Rhode Island.

clasher

I like the look of the elevation profile! I'd definitely consider riding either route as a brevet. I don't know that I'd ever do a 1000k as a perm, unless I was pre-riding my own route to check it before it was being run as an official event. How many controls would you have? I like them 80-100k apart on the bigger rides as long as there are plenty of optional places to stop in between, which seems like there is with all the 24/7 places marked, which is awesome. Nice to see hotel options at the halfway point too, some faster riders might be into doing a split like that and knocking the ride out in 50 hours. I do like the idea of a more "unsupported" 1000/1200k. I don't mind out-and-back routes, and if one were to have supported controls, it's a lot easier to do that kind of thing on an out-and-back. I think the only format that is better for volunteer staffing would be a cloverleaf style route.

GhostRider62

Curious why the gravel on the 1000k when perfectly good roads were bypassed? (I won't ride a gravel brevet unless there are few gravel sections with reasonable detours). Overall, they look good. I have ridden some of those roads.

The Downeast designer is rusa 3516. Anthony knows all the roads up there. I don't have his contact anymore. If you are able to reach out to him, I am sure he would have some good insight on your route. Sorry not to be helpul, I have ridden much of those Mass and Vt roads. They are good of those I rode

jlippinbike

I'm pretty sure neither route has unpaved roads in them. Typically I avoid unpaved roads in the routes I design. The new feature RWGPS has regarding "road surfaces" is often times not accurate. I wish they had not instituted it because a route designer cannot rely on it to make sure the route has, or doesn't have, unpaved roads. The worst part of it is that the file size of a route is tremendously huge now. I used to use PA Rando's Cue Wizard to create very nice cue sheets for my long brevet route designs. See https://parando.org/cue_wizard.html. Made the process of creating the cue sheet, or better yet, updating a cue sheet, pretty easy. The cue sheet for the 1200k route I got approved by the RUSA Route Committee once was a hassle to update after I had to make a change or two per request of the reviewer. But then came the Cue Wizard, and no more hassles until RWGPS instituted the Road Surfaces feature. Now if you try to use Cue Wizard an error occurs because the file size of the route is too big for Cue Wizard to handle. I sure wish RWGPS would make that particular feature OPTIONAL. If you want to use it, then fine. If you don't, then it doesn't mess with the route's file size. I think it works OK for 200k or maybe 300k routes. But not for the long routes, i.e., 1000k or 1200k. Bummer.

On long route I designed, or some might say "redesigned," that includes about 4 or 5 miles of unpaved roads is my redesign of PA Rando's "classic" endless mountains route. I call it "Hills of Passage." See https://ridewithgps.com/routes/34895228. When I created it I was able to use the Cue Wizard on it. But then came the institution of the Road Surface feature at RWGPS. By the way, the unpaved sections on Hills of Passage come around the 181 mile mark. Funny thing is that the big unpaved stretch is shown in Street View in Google Maps.

jlippinbike

Yeah, they are on the hilly side. That's for sure. Even though I live in NJ, I affiliate with PA Rando. And the PA Rando way of doing things is "the hillier the better." When I did rando between 2017 and 2019 I never shied away from hilly courses. But I certainly did not excel at them. I got dropped pretty regularly on all the big climbs. What saved me was the fact that I didn't take long at the controls or the overnights. I'm definitely a fan of rest stops being open 24/7 on the long brevets. My answer to the upcoming NY-Montreal-NY 1200k which does not have a healthy supply of rest stops open 24/7 is a route I named "Some Kinda Wonderful." See https://ridewithgps.com/routes/33943794. It's hilly, but not all that hilly.

GhostRider62

Good to know about Ridewithgps wackiness. Thanks. I guess I won't rely on that anymore and will bother the RBA asking if there is any gravel. It is just too dangerous on a narrow tired recumbent. It really does not take a lot to break a bunch of bones, I just got some extra hardware taken out in a surgery yesterday from a deposit on September 8th. So, I lost half a pound the easy way. LOL

I think a 1000 or 1200k would only appeal to a small group of randonneurs. I came across the 703K Sea to Saguaro defunct permanent when planning a Southern Tier deviation. It looked nice and thought what a nice way to start the tour, with a perm. Then, I looked at going down rt 85 to Why, Az and then to route 86 to south of Tucson. Not the greatest shoulders but extremely low traffic volume and some CrazyGuyonbike tourists gave it high marks if you can cover the vast distances to services (not a problem for a rando). I am not the best at planning routes, I try to zoom in from google earth to see the road and then look at heat maps and if necessary see if any rusa routes go there or if anyone from crazyguy road it. (Covid nixed my tour.) Things like places to eat or sleep, I never plan ahead more than one day.

antimonysarah

There is some definite dirt on that 1000k -- Sheldon Mountain road (Mile 289)is definitely dirt. (I scouted that area when we revived the NER Lake Champlain 300k). But there's good alternate options through there. (The Ethan Allen Highway/Route 7 is big/busy enough not to put people on for long stretches, but a few miles right around that area is fine, and also routes people past some additional services. At mile 274, just stay on Lake Road to Pease road rather than cutting east early, because that's also definitely dirt, while Lake/Pease is very nice. The two sections down near Douglas I think are completely paved, on the other hand. There's some other minor ideas that jump out to me -- there's lots of hotel options in South Burlington, so rather than fight your way through the city out to the north end, just turn around there -- NY-M-NY and BMB obviously continued on to Montreal so used stops north of Burlington, but it doesn't really add anything for a route stopping there. 24-hour services are VERY limited in most parts of New England, and you can't trust Google Maps; you have to call places, and even if somewhere is 24-hours now, that changes frequently. The Downeast was extremely remote with very limited services, you're correct.

NER has run a lot of events on many of those roads, and I've personally ridden a lot of them; I'd be happy to help with feedback on a permanent route and link you to some of our historical routes and potentially loop in some other people for feedback if you'd like; probably easier done via email than bikeforums. (I'm Sarah, the NER RBA, and you can pull my contact info from the RUSA site.) We're not currently looking for a 1000k/1200k route but more permanents are always a good thing. Submitting it as both a long perm and as several sections can also give people the option of doing a "rando tour", riding 200k-ish a day but not doing heavy night riding.

jlippinbike

Sarah, thank you very much for your response regarding the 1000k route I designed through your RUSA region. And I am very impressed with your knowledge of the region when it comes to the roads therein, paved and unpaved. During my active years in RUSA I designed quite a few routes. To date I think the total number of perms I added to the Perm Program at RUSA comes close to 40. And I got a 1200k and 1000k approved for NJ Rando through the RUSA Route Committee. Then there were the 600k and 400k routes I got approved for LI Rando through the RUSA Route Committee. I'm still full of energy designing routes, but I'm tired of going through the review process to make routes into perms and brevets. At some point you might be in the market for a 1000k or 1200k to offer in your capacity as an RBA. Feel free to use these routes I have created any which way you choose. I'm well aware that it is much easier to take a somewhat good route and make it your own than starting from scratch and coming up with a good route. My name is Jeff, and my RUSA number is 11633.

antimonysarah

I'm always happy to talk routes! Thanks. If I can make it down for the LI 600k I'll get to ride one of yours; hoping I can.