Seattle Forrest

This thread is like the amateur hour version of keystone cops.

GhostRider62

Yes, I find your comments funny and useless.

koala logs

You may need a different bike fit for prolonged z4 and z5 efforts. This is likely going to be very similar to TT bike fit.

I simply do it standing for lower RPE. The key is find the lowest RPE technique / fit for z4 and it's going to feel easier.

ZHVelo

Why would you need a different fit? And "prolonged z5" is an oxymoron, you should not do sets of more than (ca.) 8 minutes at z5.

koala logs

That's what I meant. 8 minutes at z5 is long enough. I typically do 5 minutes z5 with two minutes z4 "break" in between.

To reduce RPE (Perceived effort) and improve respiration for high intensity efforts. For example, you need to slam the saddle forward and use zero offset seatpost, to open the hip angle to improve muscle leverage, core muscle engagement, and better respiration.

You might ask why not do it all the time? A forward offset saddle position is only comfortable during high intensity efforts and reduces RPE. However, on low intensity efforts, it will load your arms and strain your shoulders and may cause numbness on your hands.

The "general purpose" road bike fit is somewhere in the middle, literally most comfortable in z3 effort but not the best for z4 and z5.

An exception to the case if you can do z5 intervals entirely out of the saddle, then you don't need to change your bike fit at all. Do z5 OOS for 5 minutes, z4 for 2 minutes seated, even if you use the default bike fit, it will not matter.

terrymorse 

No thanks, a different bike position is not going to make z4/z5 easier.

I do all my z4 efforts uphill, sitting mostly upright, with my hands on the tops. Occasionally getting out of the saddle to spare my bottom and rest my lower back muscles.

It's the classic climber position.



Coleman Valley Road, Bodega Bay, California

ZHVelo

Yea, so I just sit up a little bit when I am doing high intensity. Get a good grip on the hoods or palm on bar and some fingers below some above the part where the levers connect to bar. Very comfortable and good angle to output power. In fact, when you ride uphill you are naturally in a position similar to this, mayube even more upright. Edit: basically what terrymorse just said, I do also actually grip the bar in my intervals when there is an incline and most of my climbing will be there (and that is really what I train for).

I appreciate that this may not be the most aero, but I am not a pro. I don't think anyone here needs a different fit for different intensities.

OOS Vo2max may actually be an idea from a physiological standpoint, probably easier to achieve >90% mHR.

koala logs

Nice! Looks you might be doing z5 in that picture. That looks steep enough to see benefit from tilting the saddle down. It improves comfort and power for most riders on climbs.

But of course, the tilted down saddle can be uncomfortable on the flats and descents. It can be a bit inconvenient to tilt the saddle down before you climb and set it level again on the flats. But for making z4 climbs a bit easier, it's a good option.

koala logs

That works too. Sitting more upright also opens the hip angle just like when you slam the saddle forward. You also do both which opens up the hip angle even more.

I found OOS training at z4 / z5 improves my seated efforts as well. Because I can get closer to MHR or upper limit of z4, good for improving FTP. It feels harder to do it seated. Maybe it depends per individual. Some might find it easier seated.

Doesn't have to be long period OOS. You can break it down to 1 minute OOS with 30 seconds seated in between. Might cause added wear on the drivetrain though if you have to shift. Better do it in the trainer instead.

wolfchild

Complete nonsense.

pdlamb

tl;dr

Is this frustration similar to the "Somebody made a mistake on the internet?" meme?

wolfchild

More nonsense....

koala logs

Why nonsense? It's easier to do z4 / z5's in forward position. If z4 / z5 is already hard, won't you want to make it feel easier or less painful? If you're in less pain, you can do the effort either harder or longer.

Pros do it all the time when pushing hard. Here's Bauke Mollema sitting at the nose of the saddle to get the most forward position on the bike