Are people changing their chains way too often?
#51
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,360
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times
in
435 Posts
All my bikes are over 10 years old. But since I have never had any issue of chainrings skipping, I guess my NOT changing chains for less than 3000 miles (more like ~4000 mi between chain change on average) has little negative effect to the longevity of chainrings.
Those of you who change chains every 1000 miles, I hope your bikes last more than 20 years! Better yet, you ride 10,000 a year to justify the "saving" of not needing to change chainrings. Me? I'd rather ride than change chains every other month.
Those of you who change chains every 1000 miles, I hope your bikes last more than 20 years! Better yet, you ride 10,000 a year to justify the "saving" of not needing to change chainrings. Me? I'd rather ride than change chains every other month.
Modern rings are way sturdier - but also way more expensive !!! as Racing Dan notes below... Same greater expense for cassettes (because getting replacement cogs is impossible !)...
With a 9K mi year, I would likely be replacing my 10 spd chain 3x/yr - and happy to do that ! (Looking forward to having that 'expense' again, starting with this year !!! - yeah!)
I'm also picky about my gears/Drivetrain - getting the cassette ranges I like are v-hard to get these days... Well worth replacing the chain when worn, rather than flog everything into dust...
I do change my chain when my Park CC3 tells me it's at .75 or a hair beyond...
Iff'n you keep the old chain and old cogs and old chainring together, on the old bike... maybe you can all go to the grave together... LOL!
wouldn;t that be special...?
Good questions, but you are right. Replacing the chain before it elongates "too much" does protect the chain rings as well. I believe much of the debate originate in the fact that some chain rings and cassettes are Very expensive, thus you can defend replacing a $20 chain early to let the $200 rings and $100 cassette live a little longer. Maybe if you are on a old 9sp bike with plenty cheap parts around you may not care as much or a different approach is better/cheaper. - Me, I like to replace chains often (2x a year) as I believe it all runs a little smoother. "New chain day" - Is that a thing ? :-)
I also try to match that day with New Tires all the way around !!! I mean... the bike feels and rides like NEW and the legs seem to have that old punch again !!! LOL!
... and iff'n I'm feeling really good towards 'the ride', I'll do NEW bar tape !!!
Ride On
Yuri
EDIT: Maybe a good segway to the next 'off-season' topics - "changing Brake Pads", "Changing Gear & Brake Cables" (but that can also be pre-empted by a "When to get new Batteries" thread... "changing rotors" - the threads can be limitless !!!
...wondering where the Event Horizon is for threads...
Last edited by cyclezen; 10-08-21 at 10:03 PM.
#52
Junior Member
I don't actually do "preventive" maintenance! I just don't!
I change cable when the shifting gets sloppy. Change chains when they start skipping (on random cogs, change cassette if it skips on "some", most commonly used cog). Basically, only replace components when there's "symptom"!
So far, I've never had chains skipping on chainrings! And almost all my bikes are over 10 years old. (granted, I have several bikes so each only got used a "partial" of my yearly mileage). But I also didn't intend to keep my bikes for more than 10 years initially either, except they kept on working quite well so far. So at this point, I'm far far behind the current "state" of bike technology (I'm still riding 8-9 speeds, rim brakes. ) I could use an excuse for a new bike upgrade if any of them needs a new chainring!
So I'm not convinced the "saving" of early replacements of chains and cassettes.
I change cable when the shifting gets sloppy. Change chains when they start skipping (on random cogs, change cassette if it skips on "some", most commonly used cog). Basically, only replace components when there's "symptom"!
So far, I've never had chains skipping on chainrings! And almost all my bikes are over 10 years old. (granted, I have several bikes so each only got used a "partial" of my yearly mileage). But I also didn't intend to keep my bikes for more than 10 years initially either, except they kept on working quite well so far. So at this point, I'm far far behind the current "state" of bike technology (I'm still riding 8-9 speeds, rim brakes. ) I could use an excuse for a new bike upgrade if any of them needs a new chainring!
So I'm not convinced the "saving" of early replacements of chains and cassettes.
Last edited by atnyc; 10-09-21 at 07:53 AM.
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2333 Post(s)
Liked 2,097 Times
in
1,314 Posts
All my bikes are over 10 years old. But since I have never had any issue of chainrings skipping, I guess my NOT changing chains for less than 3000 miles (more like ~4000 mi between chain change on average) has little negative effect to the longevity of chainrings.
Those of you who change chains every 1000 miles, I hope your bikes last more than 20 years! Better yet, you ride 10,000 a year to justify the "saving" of not needing to change chainrings. Me? I'd rather ride than change chains every other month.
Those of you who change chains every 1000 miles, I hope your bikes last more than 20 years! Better yet, you ride 10,000 a year to justify the "saving" of not needing to change chainrings. Me? I'd rather ride than change chains every other month.
As mentioned in one post, zerofriction has some interesting analysis for the total costs of maintenance or lack of maintenance.
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,678
Bikes: too many sparkly Italians, some sweet Americans and a couple interesting Japanese
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 569 Post(s)
Liked 581 Times
in
409 Posts
These Preventative Maintenance discussions are interesting for a retired maintenance professional and understandably confusing in cycling. You either practice breakdown maintenance or PM; however, some consider a cog skipping a sign that preventative maintenance is needed and to others like me that is a breakdown. My old Mavic hubs w/ the plastic bushings need overhaul often (1,000 to 2,000 miles max.) but my Campagnolo hubs can go many times that.
#55
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,360
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 510 Post(s)
Liked 639 Times
in
435 Posts
I don't actually do "preventive" maintenance! I just don't!
I change cable when the shifting gets sloppy. Change chains when they start skipping (on random cogs, change cassette if it skips on "some", most commonly used cog). Basically, only replace components when there's "symptom"!
...
So I'm not convinced the "saving" of early replacements of chains and cassettes.
I change cable when the shifting gets sloppy. Change chains when they start skipping (on random cogs, change cassette if it skips on "some", most commonly used cog). Basically, only replace components when there's "symptom"!
...
So I'm not convinced the "saving" of early replacements of chains and cassettes.
The really good reason to do things, like chain replacement or tire replacement, is to get the best performance, which degrades long before failure...
'Performance' to some is not a consideration, I guess... But given the weakness of bicycle engine/motor, every gain in performance can be very noticeable and make riding more enjoyable, in a fashion, to some. I get that 'performance' is not the end all and be all for every rider. Hence I also find great 'enjoyment' in riding my vintage stuff, with the obvious lesser 'performance'.
But even the vintage stuff is more fun to ride when it's operating in top condition.
The possible slightly higher cost of keeping the machine in best operation is way offset by the greater enjoyment/performance.
For most of us, cycling is very much recreation. If it really impacted my 'work', I'd even be more diligent.
These Preventative Maintenance discussions are interesting for a retired maintenance professional and understandably confusing in cycling. You either practice breakdown maintenance or PM; however, some consider a cog skipping a sign that preventative maintenance is needed and to others like me that is a breakdown. My old Mavic hubs w/ the plastic bushings need overhaul often (1,000 to 2,000 miles max.) but my Campagnolo hubs can go many times that.
I find the modern stuff way easier to maintain and requires this much less than the older, now 'vintage' stuff.
Those of us who understand and value our 'vintage' stuff, did and continue to do maintenance. Riders looking for the max performance will also do maintenance to prevent lesser performance...
I think those on the extremes of the maintenance spectrum prolly don;t understand each other...
Ride On
Yuri
#56
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,872
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times
in
1,008 Posts
As someone that spent a fair bit of time in the Navy, there is a reason that the Lockheed P-3 Orion's (A-C variants); that I flew in, have remained in service for over 50 years, well the C are the more long lived, but the A and B models, did some serious time as well. That reason is Scheduled and Periodic Maintenance. When I was in the service, the planes in 4 of the 6 squadrons at my base, were already more than 20 years old, and most remained in service in the US Navy until 2004-ish until they started to retire some of the older models and reduce the number of squadrons due to the fall of the iron curtain. They then update the electronics and sold them to the Netherlands, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, and others, as well as move some over to Homeland Security to help with the drug interdiction flights in the Caribbean and around Panama. The planes are not the fastest in the sky, but they are dependable and could take a beating in the weather. Its the same frame and engine setup they use for Hurricane Hunters in the NOAA side, the Air Farce, , uses the C-130.
I figure if I can eliminate future issues by doing to quick maintenance now, then it is worth it to me. I do the same on my vehicles as well as my house, why not your bikes.
I figure if I can eliminate future issues by doing to quick maintenance now, then it is worth it to me. I do the same on my vehicles as well as my house, why not your bikes.
#57
Full Member
80's Shimano UG chain will last forever.
think of all the bikes that never get a new chain. beach cruiser's that stay in the family for 60 years, sturmey archer ball buster 3 speeds that you used on the paper route in the 60's, still going strong on the same chain,
however, if people are willing to work in deplorable conditions, then i will spend the $10.99 and enjoy "new chain day" as often as possible.
think of all the bikes that never get a new chain. beach cruiser's that stay in the family for 60 years, sturmey archer ball buster 3 speeds that you used on the paper route in the 60's, still going strong on the same chain,
however, if people are willing to work in deplorable conditions, then i will spend the $10.99 and enjoy "new chain day" as often as possible.
#58
Junior Member
For those who can detect such tiny performance differences, I solute you.
But for those who advocate replacing less expensive parts to "save" the potential replacement cost of the major parts, I think that's highly questionable, especially once you factor in the time cost of the frequent replacement of parts that are still in working order.
As someone that spent a fair bit of time in the Navy, there is a reason that the Lockheed P-3 Orion's (A-C variants); that I flew in, have remained in service for over 50 years, well the C are the more long lived, but the A and B models, did some serious time as well. That reason is Scheduled and Periodic Maintenance. When I was in the service, the planes in 4 of the 6 squadrons at my base, were already more than 20 years old, and most remained in service in the US Navy until 2004-ish until they started to retire some of the older models and reduce the number of squadrons due to the fall of the iron curtain. They then update the electronics and sold them to the Netherlands, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, and others, as well as move some over to Homeland Security to help with the drug interdiction flights in the Caribbean and around Panama. The planes are not the fastest in the sky, but they are dependable and could take a beating in the weather. Its the same frame and engine setup they use for Hurricane Hunters in the NOAA side, the Air Farce, , uses the C-130.
I figure if I can eliminate future issues by doing to quick maintenance now, then it is worth it to me. I do the same on my vehicles as well as my house, why not your bikes.
I figure if I can eliminate future issues by doing to quick maintenance now, then it is worth it to me. I do the same on my vehicles as well as my house, why not your bikes.
Last edited by atnyc; 10-09-21 at 07:12 PM.
#59
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Likes For GlennR:
#60
Junior Member
Unless you're racing, and are sprinting out of the saddle in a pack, a skipped chain should not cause anyone to go down. Sure, you'll wobble a bit. But any competent rider will be able to recover.
The most often out of saddle for most people are climbing. But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
#61
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,872
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times
in
1,008 Posts
yea well, I understand that, it was more of an analogy of where my maintenance mentality comes from. Ok, a bike reference for you then. If it wasn't for me doing said PM, I would not have discovered that I had bad bottom bracket bearing on a fairly new bike. I would not expect that, but I went through 2 bearings on the drive side, so I ended up replacing the bottom bracket entirely to eliminate that issue in the future. So my bike will now not fall out of the sky.
#62
Junior Member
I just found these excuses and justification for early chain/cassette replacement bordering old wife's tale. A holdover from days when bike components were flimsy and don't last.
Sure, if you enjoy tinkering, and the process of cleaning and maintaining the bike is part and parcel of the cycling experience for you, I totally understand. Do it as often as you want, you don't need any justification beyond just the "new chain day" whether the bike needs the chain or not.
There's a time I was obsessive about it too. But I'm a recovered bike-a-holic. I know the difference between the two. I reject the excuse for unnecessary maintenance work. I only do it when 1) I just feel like doing it! Or 2) it NEEDS to be done, As I no longer "feel like" doing it just for the heck of it frequently any more, I soon discovered the truth: it doesn't "need" to be done half as often as many would have us to believe!
Sure, if you enjoy tinkering, and the process of cleaning and maintaining the bike is part and parcel of the cycling experience for you, I totally understand. Do it as often as you want, you don't need any justification beyond just the "new chain day" whether the bike needs the chain or not.
There's a time I was obsessive about it too. But I'm a recovered bike-a-holic. I know the difference between the two. I reject the excuse for unnecessary maintenance work. I only do it when 1) I just feel like doing it! Or 2) it NEEDS to be done, As I no longer "feel like" doing it just for the heck of it frequently any more, I soon discovered the truth: it doesn't "need" to be done half as often as many would have us to believe!
Last edited by atnyc; 10-09-21 at 08:06 PM.
#63
On Your Left
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,373
Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3004 Post(s)
Liked 2,433 Times
in
1,187 Posts
Likes For GlennR:
#64
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
How often are you out of the saddle?
Unless you're racing, and are sprinting out of the saddle in a pack, a skipped chain should not cause anyone to go down. Sure, you'll wobble a bit. But any competent rider will be able to recover.
The most often out of saddle for most people are climbing. But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
Unless you're racing, and are sprinting out of the saddle in a pack, a skipped chain should not cause anyone to go down. Sure, you'll wobble a bit. But any competent rider will be able to recover.
The most often out of saddle for most people are climbing. But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
#65
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Mississauga/Toronto, Ontario canada
Posts: 8,721
Bikes: I have 3 singlespeed/fixed gear bikes
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4227 Post(s)
Liked 2,488 Times
in
1,286 Posts
Likes For wolfchild:
#66
Expired Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,526
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3661 Post(s)
Liked 5,408 Times
in
2,747 Posts
I haven't seen any posts in this thread that show folks replacing parts "early." It seems most folks replace chains when they are worn to established limits and cassettes when they no longer work. I think you are getting agitated about some practice that doesn't actually exist.
Likes For shelbyfv:
#67
Full Member
I keep my chain pretty clean and check it regularly for wear.
I get ~2,500 miles on a chain and change it at most a couple of hundred miles early.
This may seem like low mileage on a chain, but I ride a lot of hills & shift frequently.
I use a Sram PC Red22 on my 11-speed Sram Red drive train.
I'm at ~14,000 miles on a XG-1190 cassette, and it looks like it's new, no skipping or bad shifts whatsoever.
I switch to an Ultegra cassette for the fall/winter, and that's got t least 15,000 miles on it, and shifts as if it was new.
I figure that by changing the chain just before it's time, I use one extra chain over two seasons.
That costs me ~$40, but gets me thousands of more miles on each cassette.
So I pay ~20/yr to save $100's on cassettes.
This also saves $100's on chain rings.
Even if I change my chains far before needed, it still amount to short money over two years to save quite a bit on cassettes, chain rings & derailleur pulleys.
Aside from that, I don't have any degradation in shift quality.
Last edited by Dancing Skeleton; 10-10-21 at 11:04 AM.
Likes For Dancing Skeleton:
#68
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 3,682
Bikes: Puch Marco Polo, Saint Tropez, Masi Gran Criterium
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1163 Post(s)
Liked 442 Times
in
315 Posts
Just curious if anyone has seen the lightweight steel cnc milled cassettes being marketed by Prestaflator? They claim to be as light as Dura Ace but much longer lasting.
#69
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,507
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2743 Post(s)
Liked 3,390 Times
in
2,053 Posts
How often are you out of the saddle?
Unless you're racing, and are sprinting out of the saddle in a pack, a skipped chain should not cause anyone to go down. Sure, you'll wobble a bit. But any competent rider will be able to recover.
The most often out of saddle for most people are climbing. But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
Unless you're racing, and are sprinting out of the saddle in a pack, a skipped chain should not cause anyone to go down. Sure, you'll wobble a bit. But any competent rider will be able to recover.
The most often out of saddle for most people are climbing. But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
#70
Cheerfully low end
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 1,975
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 645 Post(s)
Liked 1,044 Times
in
667 Posts
Roger that! I reminded myself two months ago that I’m very allergic to hard falls on pavement. My hip, elbow, knee and ankle all seem to have a very unwelcome reaction to falling on hard pavement from riding out of the saddle, even at low speed. Very curious.
Otto
Otto
#71
Senior Member
Fairly often, including around others.
If everyone was casually neglecting their setups - not worrying about drivetrain slips because it usually doesn't cause a crash, or not worrying about bottle cages that sometimes launch bottles because it usually doesn't cause a crash, etc - the rate of serious problems in a group ride context would not be low.
I'd rather not.
Depends on the landing. A road bike is a fairly high place to fall from, without good means of arrest. Low-speed crashes are often no big deal, but occasionally they break bones.
If everyone was casually neglecting their setups - not worrying about drivetrain slips because it usually doesn't cause a crash, or not worrying about bottle cages that sometimes launch bottles because it usually doesn't cause a crash, etc - the rate of serious problems in a group ride context would not be low.
Sure, you'll wobble a bit.
But going uphill at 5mph, even a fall is no biggie.
#72
Advocatus Diaboli
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,633
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4731 Post(s)
Liked 1,531 Times
in
1,002 Posts
For example, a flatlander Floridian.. who, once they're up to speed and cruising their ride in a pretty narrow range, are they experiencing the longest chain life, but the shortest cassette life (less shifting, but most of the miles are spent in 1-2 of the rear cogs). OTOH, someone doing a lot of shifting, using a lot of gears -- does this mean more wear on chain, but much more even distribution of wear on the cassette's cogs?
Likes For Sy Reene:
#73
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: reno, nv
Posts: 2,299
Bikes: yes, i have one
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1136 Post(s)
Liked 1,181 Times
in
687 Posts
Actually, I'm curious on what the consensus is regarding shifting frequency, reliance on fewer rear cogs, or not shifting much at all, and how there's an impact on chain or cassette wear.
For example, a flatlander Floridian.. who, once they're up to speed and cruising their ride in a pretty narrow range, are they experiencing the longest chain life, but the shortest cassette life (less shifting, but most of the miles are spent in 1-2 of the rear cogs). OTOH, someone doing a lot of shifting, using a lot of gears -- does this mean more wear on chain, but much more even distribution of wear on the cassette's cogs?
For example, a flatlander Floridian.. who, once they're up to speed and cruising their ride in a pretty narrow range, are they experiencing the longest chain life, but the shortest cassette life (less shifting, but most of the miles are spent in 1-2 of the rear cogs). OTOH, someone doing a lot of shifting, using a lot of gears -- does this mean more wear on chain, but much more even distribution of wear on the cassette's cogs?
#74
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 6,872
Bikes: Trek Domane SLR 7 AXS, Trek CheckPoint SL7 AXS, Trek Emonda ALR AXS, Trek FX 5 Sport
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 763 Post(s)
Liked 1,731 Times
in
1,008 Posts
Yikes, 200 to 250 for a cassette...
#75
Quidam Bike Super Hero
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Stone Mountain, GA (Metro Atlanta, East)
Posts: 1,135
Bikes: 1995 Trek 800 Sport, aka, "CamelTrek"
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 331 Post(s)
Liked 415 Times
in
282 Posts
I am also reminded of my brother's childhood friend who fell at ~5 mph without helmet. TBI and disabled for life
Likes For Digger Goreman: