MB33 

What is the lever throw like on the 7400 vs the 7700? Is it the same travel or longer on the 7400? How much better does the 7400 feel compared to RSX 7 speed? That's the only STI I have, they're very smooth and I like them but the throw is a little long on some shifts, especially going up to the bigger rings (triple crank) on the front.

KCT1986

Of these early STI levers, the ones with the alloy bracket, some are front double ring only. The 7400 & 6400 are double only. The 105 series had a later addition option for a triple. The later 8 speed RSX also had a triple, which is more like the 105 triple, with trim positions, AFIK.

I have used the RSX 7 speed levers and had the same issues with the front lever's long throw, especially from the smallest to middle ring. Since this model had no trim position, it needed the full motion to shift. The other levers have a trim position, an intermediate position between full shifts. These positions let you do a partial sweep and then just need another partial sweep to make up the amount you were "short" to complete the shift. Not all levers are the same in regards to the the location of these positions, i.e. some were between the small & middle ring but not between middle & large. Since I haven't used the 105 triple or the 8 speed RSX, I don't know exactly where the trim positions are on these.

Haven't really tried to figure out "throw" amounts on the various rear shifters. Of note though, is that the first shift, (smallest cog, smallest chainring), is always longest since the design expects to take up same additional cable slack.

Hopefully someone else with experience of the specifics of the levers will chime in.

RobbieTunes

No clue on throw length.
Older STIs seemed to like a complete throw.
Newer STIs just go to the click.

deadzone

I'm definitely one of the 7800 and 7700 hoarders. Mostly 7800 because although I think the 7700 are slightly crisper shifting, the ability to purchase replacement hoods for 7800 makes them preferable (I hoard the hoods too). All else equal 10sp cassette has better gear range obviously than 9sp too which is an advantage. Ultegra 6500 9sp shifters are as smooth as anything ever made too. Only problem is used ones seem to be in bad cosmetic shape and again you can't get replacement hoods. For 9 speed, personally love the 7700 Downtube shifters. Those really shift precisely. The 8 speed STI shifters are 2nd rate when compared to these guys. Only reason to use them is if you have a fetish for period correct early 90s build.

3dvvitch 

It's very encouraging hearing about the successes people have had in maintaining and servicing 7700 sets- they're gorgeous parts! I've been a little worried about it, so this is very reassuring.

Kilroy1988 

Yes, I'm very encouraged by this thread as well and am glad I thought to ask in the first place! Lots of good information.

Now I just have to decide whether I want to build a fixed gear bike from the 1930s or a 7700-equipped bike from the 1990s next... Choices, choices!

-Gregory

deadzone

Although if starting from scratch, 7800 would be far preferable over 7700. Prices for nice condition parts on ebay are comparable but 7800 has the advantage of readily available replacement parts such as hoods, chainrings and cassettes. Not to mention the 10 speed gives better gear range. But either case, although expensive, are still way cheaper than buying a new current day groupset and as many of us agree they have superior shifting to the new stuff for a variety of reasons and in particular the fact that the gear cable runs out the sides .

natterberry 

7700 brake calipers? How are they with non aero levers?

Rocket-Sauce 

Hudz still makes 7800 compatible brake, er, hoods....
ODI GRIPS - ROAD

rccardr 

Depends on the levers, but in any case generally more effective braking than with single pivot calipers and the same pads.
Probably OK with DA 7400, but better with 105 1050 series non-aero, which are SLR levers. They are hard to find but crop up from time to time, more often on European eBay sites.
I’d avoid pre-7400 DA or 6208 levers, which seem weak to me when paired with later calipers.

Fully expect others to offer alternative opinions but, hey, you asked.

natterberry 

Thanks, Doc! I always appreciate your opinions.

I have BL-R600 to match up with my 7700 calipers. The 7400 levers I have can really change the vibe of a bike though, ya know?

RobbieTunes

BL600 may not be ideal, but if your wheels are true you can adjust them close and there will be no problem.

deadzone

Yes and last I checked you could still buy the OEM 7800 hoods from Shimano for about $20 (although only a matter of time before these go away). So the availability of OEM plus after market hoods is huge advantage. There are no after market hoods or OEM hoods for 7700 and 6500 levers. Only way to get them is to pay out the nose for NOS shifters on ebay.

deadzone

Not ideal. Dual pivot brake calipers really need brake levers with the return spring because the caliper itself does not have strong enough tension to return the lever quickly.

rccardr 

R600’s are the ideal match for those calipers. Aero, however.

rccardr 

As noted, the 1050 non aero levers are SLR. Not often seen in the USA, but same same leverage as 1051 aero and later aero style levers.
Similarly, Shimano made a 6400 Tricolor lever that was non aero, also SLR, also works great with dual pivots, also mostly a Euro kinda deal.

Nemosengineer 

On the AlAn I'm using 7700 calipers with 1st generation MA-140 Dura-Ace levers, SwissStop BXP Blue pads, Jagwire Road-Pro cables.
This combination has a firm lever feel and very progressive and predictable action. I would say the early D-A levers have less mechanical advantage resulting in a slightly firmer shorter lever pull that is not a big deal for me. An easy way to put it is less lever travel with slightly more effort compared to the 7700 brifter. I will add the SwissStop BXP pads are a very big improvement over 17 year old factory pads.
I like the 7700/7800 stuff enough that I'm in work on a new bike thats a hybrid of 7703 crankset. 7803 mechs, 7900 12-28 cassette, 7900 downtube shifters, Campagnolo Skeleton brakes, and IRD levers.
Excuse the horrid photo.

20201127_230254 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

: Mike

deadzone

6400 non-aero? Never seen that, must be pretty rare. I don't understand why anyone would choose to run non-aero outside of a full vintage setup.

Nemosengineer 

For me I can go either way, for instance the AlAn was a simple build but I wanted it all Dura Ace and trying to find Dura-Ace AX levers with nice hoods would have been fairly big dollar for levers I really do like the look of, but I opted for NOS 1st gen Dura Ace because I had them and fresh Cane Creek hoods are cheap. True no return springs but really not required with non aero routing and the levers are plenty snappy.
For the Bob Jackson Aero routing is in the plan as it's being built with a eye on doing a century or two, so IRD levers with return springs are on the menu, indexed downtube shifters are a personal preference because I like simplicity which equals reliability in my mind. I'm not a retro grouch, I do like modern stuff like paying attention to the aero stuff like wheels, cable routing, sealed bearings anywhere I can have them as long as they're serviceable, at some point it's a game of diminishing returns, horses for courses and all of that.
I build what feels right to me and I do blur the line between vintage and modern, Dura-Ace and Campagnolo, and I do feel that any creative endeavor should reflect the builders views, experiences and personal aesthetic. Life is good.

: Mike

deadzone

I prefer to keep things generally era consistent on my bikes. But I do love friction DT shifting and at some point I may break my rules by installing mavic/simplex shifters on a 8-10 speed build. I put 7700 components on an 80s Bianchi steel frame a few years ago and it just didn't look/feel right to me so I gave up on that. The STI shifters definitely looked out of place and for some reason the dual pivot brake calipers bugged me from asthetics point of view, just didn't match the frame in my eyes.

RobbieTunes

Bike porn.

Wileyone 

I have 3 bikes loaded with 7700 but they all run 7800 brakes as I find them stiffer than the 7700's. All with DT shifters. As I am not a fan of brifters. Visually I think it is the prettiest group set ever. It also works flawlessly.
This thread needs pics.

natterberry 

Found a picture of the 1050 SLR, very slick.

This bike will include the FH-7700 i picked up from you, actually!

Thanks Mike!

I had actually purchased a few sets of Kool Stop Dura cartridges (that come with the extra salmon pads) for other projects, so I just slid those right in the stock holders.

The 7700 calipers beat the 7800 on looks for me, but I had heard they were more stiff.

-Nic

rccardr 

Merckx Corsa Extra with Tricolor bits, Deore crankset and RD, non-aero 6400 levers. Big gears for big hills:

Cinelli Mens Sana with Tricolor 8 speed group,. 6400 non-aero levers:

Davidson, all early Dura Ace, have a set of Tektro 559's and 105 (1050) non-aero levers to install the next time it comes up in rotation.
The early DA brakes look nice but don't stop as well as I need them to, even with new pads:

Finally, an 89 Bianchi Mondial with mostly 7700, Sugino compact crankset, BL-R600 brake levers. One of the fastest in the stable, love the braking feel on this one:

deadzone

Are you running friction or indexed DT shifters on your 7700 bikes? I have one bike with full 7700 group including the indexed DT shifters. I don't expect I'll ever run 7700 brifters, will stick to 7800s if I want brifters. The 7700 DT shifters are outstanding from shift performance point of view, but they do have obnoxiously load clicking sound.

By the way, for all you 7700 riders, what do you do for cassette replacements? Seems like you can still find new Ultegra 6500 cassettes if you look hard enough, but they are definitely in short supply.