Bigbadjohn

Trying to get this self build bike to work, ordered wheel with motor, controller from different vendors AliExpress

Everything connected when I turn on display and open throttle I hear a low spinning sound, but wheel does not move, I first did it with learning wire connected and wheel turned slowly forwards but when I disconnect learning wire just a low spinning sound coming from motor but wheel not spinning.
I tried using a different display same thing maybe it's the HAL I had to change the 6 pin plug as it was not same as on controller I matched all 6





colours.

2old

FME, matching colors (usually) doesn't work with different vendors. Hopefully DW will respond since he has had more experience with these phenomena. The time I had a similar response one of the phase wires had disconnected.

KPREN

I would agree with 2old, Matching wires from different vendors may be the real problem. You may need a wiring diagram from both vendors. If a phase wire was off, I would suspect that you would hear nothing. My guess is the noise you hear is the phase bridge working but no real power is being delivered from the battery to the windings. My guess is one or two of your wires from controller to motor is incorrect. Could also be a sensor that must be connected. Are you trying this with everything installed on the bike?

KPREN

In looking at the pictures. Do you have a battery sensor wire that goes to the battery in addition to the two power leads? Would be like a 5V sensor from the BMS. Some controllers and motors need this wire.
In the upper photo it looks like one of the phase wires is unplugged? You could get noise if the controller is not a sine wave controller even without all phases working.

Doc_Wui

Ifs it a geared motor? You can tell by spinning it w/o power A geared motor will spin forward with less resistance. It will take more force to spin backwards because the gears have engaged and are turning the motor. Spinning forward, there is a clutch, That lets it freewheel. If it's not a geared motor, then I have no guess,


You hear a whirr like the motor is turning and it changes with pitch with throttle? If it's a geared motor, it may be spinning backwards inside the housing, and the clutch will not spin the wheel. It means the controller learned it wrong,

Here is a flow chart from the Endless Sphere forum on trial-and-error motor wiring,. Sure, it's confusing, but if it's spinning backwards inside the housing, the lower right diagram describes their suggestion. Swap two pair of wires. When you do it, use very light throttle to check. If it's not right, you can blow out the controller.

Doc_Wui

One thing. Are all wires in the 6 pin Hall connector matched. This is the usual wire arrangement for the Hall connector, coming out of the motor.

KPREN

Hadn't thought of that. Happens all the time with three phase motors in equipment. From the trouble shooting diagram below, you can't just swap any two phase wires. You have to also tell the controller you did?

Bigbadjohn

It is a geared motor

it does spin very slowly in correct direction with learning wire connected I get the low spinning noise with no motion after I disconnect learning wire

Thanks for all this help I will persevere

Doc_Wui

Yeah, I had to try to prove it to myself. I flipped two phase wires and two sensor wires, but i had to fiddle with the phase wires until I got a combo where the motor spins backward. I flipped yellow and blue on the Hall and yellow and green on the phase, but it just growled. So I tried some different combos on the phase and one caused it spin backward very smoothly. I took a video,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH4u...ature=youtu.be

So after you change one set of of phase ewires, you might have to go thru a few phase wire swaps. There are only six combos on phases. Be very careful and only give a tiny bit of throttle, because you can blow the controller if the phases are badly miswired. There' a false positive possible, where the motor spins but not smoothly, and it draws a lot of power and can damage the controller.
.

KPREN

Seems like a good idea to check your current and phase balance with a clamp on amp meter when you think you have it right. A bit of common sense should tell you if your numbers make sense.

Thanks for the vid. I have not worked on enough of them or had the money to just fk around swapping wires to see what happens. If it was my living, I would.

Bigbadjohn

Thanks I am on the right track now just needs a bit of fiddling, so it could be a problem with the HAL wires
Did not occur to me it could be one of those 3 phase wires as their color coded not too bothered if I blow a controller they are cheap, but you get what you pay for

I have another ebike same size wheel 36V I was thinking of swapping wheels to test, non-working ebike is 48V I don't think it matters with the motor, but that will only test the motor that is not the problem

Thanks again you have been a great help

kentpaul

**** chinese products as usual.

spinnanz

Hook the 3 main motor wires back as per colour.

Then power up your conteller and set to level 3. Join the 2 single green wires together. If the wheel spins, let it do so for 30 sec then disconnect the green wires. It should all work now.

If it doesn't spin when you connect the 2 green wires, disconnect them, wait 3 seconds, then reconnect them. Now it should go. Let it spin for 30 seconds then do connect the green wires.


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Bigbadjohn

Thanks will do this soon had to get more connectors.

Are you saying don't connect the 6 Hal wires, will try Doc's suggestions also

spinnanz

No keep the halls. Although that controller will run without them it will be a little noisier than with hall sensors. Also without halls it will display the error code E08 on screen.

Bigbadjohn

I did as spinnanz suggested but without the HAL connected, turned on LED then connected green wires and wheel went slowly in the correct direction turned off disconnected the green wires heard a humming noise coming from motor wheel not turning I did as Doc_Wui suggested swapped the green and blue phase wires it now works have not connected the Hal yet and only tried for a few minutes did not see any error on LED but did not look close I will try changing yellow and green on Hal when I connect them as Doc_Wui's diagram finally after a year and 3 controllers 2 of them I plugged in backwards I got it working with all your help Thanks, all I have to do now is route the wires

What does the HAL do it seems to work without it I notice you said it runs quieter

spinnanz

The halls tell the controller the poistion of the wheel, so it can energise the correct main coil. Without halls it guesses the position. Using the halls gives smoother and quieter acceleration or ride when loaded (like up a hill), and helps the motor be smooth when starting from a dead stop. When fully accelerated and cruising the difference will only be very slight.

Bigbadjohn

I exchanged yellow and blue HAL wires as bottom right diagram. I guess I could try them back all matching colours see if it makes any difference, but I guess since wheel was going backwards ( not actually going backwards because of the clutch and making a hum) until I switched 2 phase wires it needs to be that way. wheel from a different manufacturer than controller.

Thank you so much for your help

Bigbadjohn

The only problem I have, and it's a small problem when I engage the throttle the LED gives MPH reading but when I release it goes to zero.

I am amazed by this 48V bike so much better than 36V
I notice you can charge the battery up 54V or 58V my charger will only go to 54 I think I have seen some that charge to 58 is that possible from a 48V battery I know if you did this battery might have a short life.

Doc_Wui

That loss of speed when coasting may have several causes. (1) You might have to connect an external speed sensor. (2) you have a speed sensor but the display has to be set for it, and (3) the controller was intended for non geared motors.

I know you have a geared motor because of hat spectacular trick of running backwards in stealth mode. So you will have to look at your (ha ha ha) controller manual to see if it shows a speed sensor connection,

I bought a controller once, and it was only 20 bucks but I inquired about the manual anyway. The gal in Hong Kong pointed me toward a picture on their webite, mostly in chinese.

KPREN

You can only charge a 48 volt battery to 54.6 volts. You can charge a 52 volt battery to 58.8 volts. You will ruin a 48 volt battery trying to charge it to 58.8 Volts.

Bigbadjohn

I think the HAL wires would have something to do with speed detection in computer LED

I read somewhere when throttle is not engaged no power hence no mph on LED

Doc_Wui

You're close. The motor is pushed around by synchronized pulses on the three phase wires. The electronics know exactly the position of the motor, so they know its rpm. The LCD, if you have one, is able to calculate the bike speed from the rpm info if it has the wheel diameter. And so it does,

A direct drive motor is always turning, even when coasting, so the speed can be calculated. Big Bad John has a geared motor. When that coasts, the motor stops so there's no speed info. You fix that by telling the system to measure speed using a speed sensor. SOmetimes this is in the motor. If not, you have to put one on the wheel.

You don't need Halls to run a motor, if you have a sensorless controller. Those somehow figure out the motor position by looking at how the motor is spinning. I'm an electrical engineer and I don't understand how they do that. Those controllers can also calculate speed when the motors are turning/