big chainring 

It was the latest and greatest thing to hit bike racing back in the 70's. I remember they were very pricey. Some top riders road them back in the day. I got out of cycling in the early 80's. Since then I havent heard or seen much of them. What happened?

John E

I wonder whether cost-effective carbon fiber under cut titanium's market.

HDFACTORYCERTIF

There were some failures in those old frames and they had a lot of flex.

wahoonc

I had one that suffered from stress cracks. I think they went out of business around 1982 or so, CF was not a real winner back then either...I remember the Alan CF with the aluminum lugs. The Teledyne's were light weight, I suspect they didn't have the design and alloy quite right, which led to the problems.

Aaron

Bikehead

Had one back in the mid 70's. And the other
poser, is correct, they had a lot of flex. Mine
ended up cracking at the bottom brkt. If I
remeber, it cost too much to repair, so I cut
it up. Those was the good old days, Teledyne
titan, paramounts, and bob jackson's. Allens
which if I remember right was a Alum. frame, with
screws, holding rear traig, on. Correct me if I'm
wrong

MajorA

Bikehead - Were Teledyne bottom bracket spindles commonly found on Bob Jacksons? I have a 1972 BJ which I'm restoring after stripping it to the frame, and it had a serious case of weight weenie disease when I got (equipped with only a single ring in the front with a Campy barcon for the rear, presumably for time trial or criterium use; the aforementioned titanium spindle; Maillard Course freewheel, made of dural ... you get the picture). Just curious, as I'm trying to gather as much Bob Jackson lore as I can ...

T-Mar

Read this;

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA..._article_1.htm

Picchio Special

FYI, the Teledynes (and I believe also the Speedwell frames like the one Ocana road when he won the Tour in '73) were a lesser grade of Titanium than current Ti frames are made with. The Teledynes used the "commercially pure" variant, whereas today's Ti bikes are either 6/4 or 3/2.5, which are more suitable for bike frame construction. Teledyne and Speedwell were going with what was available at the time, and were ahead of their time as a result. Too much flex and frame failure were the result of being the pioneers.

Walter

Ultimately, John E. is probably right. In the modern market today titanium went from being the "next big thing" to a niche market (like steel) pretty quickly. As CF gets cheaper and lighter you won't see much else in the racing market anyways.

big chainring 

Great article! I didnt realize the input made by Ron Skarin. He was an awesome rider. I remember his Teledyne track bike. He set a record in the 4000 meters at the Northbrook Velodrome in '76? or around there. I also remember him winning at the Boul Mich. race about that same year. He just took off on the last lap and left the field behind. He was one of those really smooth, fast riders.

Bikehead

MajorA:

Bob Jackson are made in Leeds England, I belive. I'm not
sure if Teledyne bb spindles were used on Bob Jacksons.
I have been looking for a used Bob Jackson to fix up,
but, you never see, them, used. The used one must
be as scarce as hen teeth. There is probley someone
else, that can give you, some info on Bob Jacksons.
I rode one, once, and it was a fast, twichie, and put
most of the power to the ground.

vjp

I have a Teledyne track frame that belonged to Jocelyn Lovell, I have learned that they are a pretty rare beast, I believe that Ron Skarin's was stolen out of his vehicle (not by Lovell I hope!).

repechage

There were only 2 or 3 made. Skarin's was stolen after a track race. He donated his road bike to a bike racing museum, hall of fame.

The Teledyne spindles were along with the fixing bolts a shop sold item, they went for about $28. when an entire Campagnolo bottom bracket sold for less.

John E

I think the main factors have been raised in this thread:
1) reliability issues;
2) material flex just as stiffer frames were becoming fashionable;
3) emergence and economical mass-production of a competing new material (CF).

Madmonk1

Raced a Teledyne in the early 70's. Some owners had everything from stress cracks too catastrophic failure. The achilles heel to this otherwise great frame was the HUGE diameter down tube. It gave the bike stiffness which was great. But instead of propietary clamps to match the down tube diameter. Teledyne decided too go on the cheap and crimp the tube to fit the standard clamps for the shifters. Hence a weak spot.. I personally never had a issue of any kind l was a fly weight. 5' 9" @ 142 lbs. Not too say it wasn't on my mind when I was hurtling down a steep grade or carving turns.

scarlson 

Right, Teledyne used commercially-pure (CP) titanium, whereas most of the modern Ti bikes (really anything except Teledyne) use 3AL2.5V (grade 9) alloy or something similar. This gave the metal more strength and fatigue resistance and made it less finicky to weld (so fewer cracks starting at bad welds).

Nemosengineer 

No photos, I can fix that. This is a very long running Titan project with a NOS frame that was found in Belgium and a host of parts mostly French either NOS or very good used and Hi-E wheels and rims. Its currently hanging on my office wall, I know I need to finish it.
There's more than a few really nice Titans here on Bike Forums

20190323_191555 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20190323_193428 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20190323_193354 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20190323_193257 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

20190323_193732 by nemosengineer, on Flickr

: Mike

Steel Charlie

I had/raced one in the early 80's. Chet Kyle and I were both Vets then and and often were in the same races - he bragged that his Titan (WAY tall frame!) had the highest scrap value of any bike in the Vet races. Mine was a little flexy for me but not much - 5'8"/136 at the time. I had one of the last ones with the upgraded fork dropouts and bottom bracket. Never had a problem with it. Had it for years painted white and finally loaded it with Suntour Superbe and gave it to the son of a friend in the late 90's. Far as I know he's still riding it.

bikingshearer 

Luis Ocana rode a Speedwell on a few climbs in a few stage of the 1973 TdF, the one he won by 15 minutes over Bernard Thevenet. He rode standard-issue steel for the vast majority of the miles (orange, badged Motobecane, but almost certainly built by someone else). With his form that year (and no Merckx to contend with) he probably could have ridden a paper boy bike up those hills and won.

I remember hearing at the time that Speedwells were whippy as heck (not that I would have known the difference at the time). From the photos I've seen of them, the tubes where the same diameters as standard steel frames of the day. Notice that nobody else did that with commercially available titanium frames - they learned from Speedwell's mistake. Teledyne Titans were pretty revolutionary in using larger tubing diameters to increase the stiffness. Aluminum and CF builders, not to mention Litespeed, Merlin and other Ti builders, followed suit.

steelbikeguy

lots of sexy stuff there! Jubilee rear derailleur, Stronglight crank with fancy bolt, etc., but the Hi-E stuff caught my eye.
I still use a front Hi-E hub and QR that I bought in the 70's, and I'm comfortable using it. With vertical rear dropouts, even the rear QR should be okay.

I originally built my hub into a wheel with a Hi-E rim, and it looks like you've got one or two too! Weirdest darn rim I'd ever seen! It's just made of sheet aluminum, formed into a tube (sort of), and then uses hollow rivets to join the seam and also act as spoke ferrules. Harlan Meyer was creative and rather optimistic about his creations! I never had any troubles, but I'm not hard on stuff (knock on wood).

Yeah, this bike definitely needs to get out on the road!!

Steve in Peoria