JaccoW

So I've been playing with the cranks these past few days and made a whole big post about the compatibility of these older cranks and 11-speed chain, over at the 5 Vis appreciation thread.
Some great tips and comments from other users on using these as a modern compact doubles. But as it stands now the chain falls inbetween the two chainrings about half the time so it's not a great setup yet. Looks cool though.

Anyway, I received the awesome TRP RRL-SR levers in black and silver with some new Jagwire cables so I set out to install them.
These levers do feel much nicer in the hand than their cheaper (V-brake) Tektro RL520 brothers and even comes out on top of the now discontinued Cane Creek SRC-5C lever that I have on the Batavus.

The shape is comfortable and the way the quick-release button is positioned and automatically pops back in when you press the lever just feels really satisfying. We'll see how I like them once I can get some riding done.
They... do look a bit weird from the front with their outward flare on an already flared drop bar but what the heck, they feel nice.

The vintage Shimano Deore LX cantilever brakes are now installed in both the front and rear and seem to work well though I have some placeholder v-brake pads in the front that I used to give them a preliminary setup. New post mount cartridge holders and Koolstop pads are inbound.

Since the crank arm is rubbing on the chain in the 48T x 11T combo I was looking at perhaps replacing the bottom bracket with something wider. These cranks have a very low Q-factor, meaning they are pretty narrow and with the straight arms not every front derailleur fits.
So I removed the cranks (with the special crank pullers as these use 23x1mm threading instead of the now standard 22mm) and measured the bottom bracket that came with the old Shimano 8-speed triple.

123mm, hmmm so if I want something wider I would probably need 127mm.
Let's take a look online.... nothing.
20 options and everything is sold out.
Damn.

Well, I guess I don't need the high speed gearing that bad for now...

As for the derailleur, the new 11-speed stuff looks really nice and has some extra shaping and ramps to help shifting. The plan was to order a Shimano Ultegra FD-R8000... but while I could swear I saw them for sale this weekend, they're gone everywhere. Great.

More rambling when stuff comes in.

JaccoW

Bike is in rideable shape!

I managed to find a 127mm Shimano UN-300 bottom bracket and an Ultegra braze on front derailleur and the matching adapter clamp. The added benefit of that is that I can fit a chain catcher as well as a Deda dog fang though the current Trivio chain catcher is only designed for regular road doubles so it's too short. A longer one is on its way.
A Bikeforums member made some custom spacers to solve the issue of the 11-speed chain dropping in between the chainrings but those are still making their way across the pond.
Because of that I stick with 48/32 up front for now, as per front derailleur spec, but it looks like a 28T should work too. Really nice and crisp shifting with this derailleur. Perhaps I will switch to a larger 11-40 rear to gain more low-end instead of the front. We'll see.

Yesterday I took the bike on its maiden ride, a 20km ride to my parents' place. Unfortunately it was raining so I put on my rain gear. I do understand now why I have fenders on all of my bikes; the thing was covered in sand from the road.
I definitely need a shorter stem and the brake levers would be better with a slightly higher position. The drops however are really comfortable, a first for me, and the higher handlebar position makes the tops a nice upright place to be.
The tyres... are fine. Maybe I need to run them at a lower pressure (3.5 bar now) or maybe I need to look into some skinwall 42-622 tyres.

To be continued, but for now just some pictures.

noglider 

I love this.

RiddleOfSteel

Coming together, man! 51 PSI for tires of that size seems like a reasonable starting point. My 42cm Somas, which measure 38-38.5mm on old Mavic CXP21 rims (the normal "old" standard of 19-20mm external width), worked well with 50 PSI, but like 45 PSI (just over 3 bar) the best. Like your K-M, my 620 continues to be an evolution and parts and composition test bed, even if it's been "gravel ready" for weeks now (since the installation of the 42s). I'm tuning mine for road use primarily. Gravel for the mountain scenery, beauty, and seclusion from the busy world; not for the smooth surfaces. Nothing says "I want to enjoy life and nature" like being rattled to death over rocks voluntarily. I need to post some updates on the big 620 soon. I really like the black components on your World Traveller--it's the aesthetic direction I'm taking my 620 as well.

JaccoW

Thanks you two.

It's a shame I live so far away from any hills, mountains or unpaved roads as I do love riding those seashell or rock covered paths. Most of the surrounding area is just very "developed". But with some better weather coming up I do plan to take the bike on some longer trips in the hills and sand in the East of the country.

I'm looking forward to your bike as well. It's this one right? Most of the bikes I've worked on in the past did look better with shiny silver components but I feel like the 90's is a tipping point where all black starts becoming a good option.

Besides, I just wanted to try some more modern parts to see if there is any difference in functionality. And at €40/€50 for each derailleur + shifters they don't break the bank either.
So far shifting has been really nice. I find I can just throw the rear without paying too much attention because the cogs are so close together. Very little finetuning needed.
I might switch the rear over to an 11-40 at some point and just leave the front a 48/32T combo (22.3 - 121 gear inches) because that is the modern way of doing things and will probably shift better than the 48/28T (24.3 - 121 gear inches) combo I had in mind. Just need to keep an eye to see which cogs I am using most. The 11/12/13/14/15/... is pretty close together and sometimes it feels like there is barely a difference when I shift but I am used to a spread out 5-speed IGH.
So far though it shifts almost instantly.

cudak888 

Jacco, this is such a unique build that I'm still taking it in - but I dare say fenders will result in yet another metamorphosis just as I've come to take in the minute details of this variation.

I have to ask - what fenders did you have in mind? Curious to envision it.

-Kurt

JaccoW

Honestly I wasn't planning on putting fenders on this particular bike at first to keep the weight down... but I think the Velo Orange Zeppelin in black would look great here. And it would make this bike more versatile for me.
The Velo Orange Snakeskin fenders would look sick but unfortunately they don't come in black. I could probably do a decent job with a rattlecan though.

RiddleOfSteel

You are correct, that is the one. Present gear inch range is 25.9 - 134.3 with these tires and 3x10 setup. I've been mulling over a 2x10 compact setup with an 11-34 or 11-36 cassette. Gear inch range is essentially identical on the bottom end (26.2) and a touch less on the top end (126.7). I personally like the tight upper cassette gearing as fatigue, incline and wind speed can necessitate fine tuning of gear ratio when you're trying to just keep things going. At least on the road. With a 36-38T in front, those would be upper-end cruising gears on the flats. With my 39T middle ring, I'm usually around the 15 and 17T cogs, and kinda miss having a 16T. If the wind is not being dumb, then I'll be in smaller cogs. That always feels fun.

I need to get back to the 620 story telling as there have been many developments in the short time (which seems like a month in thought, at least) since I last posted. Leave it to me to take a "totally fine" bike and continue to explore things. Better braking via mini-V brakes (halfway there), more road buzz soaked up via some carbon pieces (surprise), a more modern look with more black in the composition, with more to come. Why? For fun, and to drop some weight. Modern big tire gravel bikes are ~25-30 lbs with all the special things. And several thousand dollars. And not available in Aspiring Giraffe sizes (or most any)(or any color that I'd be ok with). So why not make an already great bike even better with minimal modification? "Oh this old lugged steel thing? Yeah, it's 23.x lbs / well under 11kg....."

JaccoW

It's funny how that works. On paper it looks just fine but in reality you will always find yourself searching for that one gear in between on the flats. Why not buy a separate 16T cog? I have come across several websites here that sell Dura Ace cogs in various sizes. Not the cheapest but it would give you the fine-tuning you need?

Damn it @cudak888 just ordered VO Zeppelins...

RiddleOfSteel

I just buy (well, I have it now) a 12-25 or 12-27T 10-speed cassette for cheap (used) and change out the lower set of cogs. In the end, it's only a half-problem, not a full blown hindrance, so the impetus to change things is quite low. That, and having a top-dog 53-11T combo for steep, long downhills is always nice.

JaccoW

Received a set of custom spacers from @oneclick to solve the problem of the 11-speed chain dropping in between the two chainrings.

Switched things out for the 28T chainring as well so I now have a 48/28T x 11-32 setup. I haven't had the chance to do a riding testrun yet but it's virtually impossible for the chain to get stuck now.
Plus, the Ultegra 2x11 front derailleur was only rated at a 16T difference but seems to do a 20T difference just fine. Those shaped cages really make a difference.

I also installed a shorter stem but no good pictures yet.



2.1mm versus the standard 3.6mm spacers




26 x 32T


28 x 11T - this causes drag on the outer chainring but this combo should never be used anyway, Still well below the bent portion of the derailleur cage.


The previous 32 x 11T chain position. Note how it is well above the bent bottom portion of the derailleur.

RiddleOfSteel

Love the orange glow/background lighting. It's a lovely touch.

JaccoW

Black Velo Orange zeppelin fenders installed.

They weren't the easiest things to install, partially because of the oversized tyres, but also because the supplied hardware wasn't always the greatest quality. The fork crown daruma bolt simply snapped in half when I tightened the fender to it the second time after refitting.
Luckily I still had some stainless steel Honjo front and rear fender stays that mounted on the outside and don't take up as much real estate on the inside of the fender as the thick (aluminum?) nuts that came with it.

On a different note, I think this bike is a prime candidate for a frame bag. There is a ton of room there, even with the bottom bottle cage holder being a Velo Orange Mojave that can fit Nalgene bottles and the like. I need to test fit the second Mojave bottle cage on the underside of the downtube but I think I can fit a regular 1L Nalgene there, but I will have to double check if it doesn't interfere with the small chainring.

I was also thinking of using a black to pink fade handlebar tape once the bar-ends come in. Might be a bit too much but it could also be an excellent contrast as a CMYK (Cyan Magenta Yellow (gold) blacK) colour scheme.

JaccoW

JaccoW

Guess who can finally finish up his bike tonight?

non-fixie 

I would save that for the Spring 2022 update.

JaccoW

Aw man!

But CMYK!


Just kidding. No need to replace perfectly fine handlebar tape before its worn.

Anyway, I pretty much wrapped up this bike today. The right shifter pod needs a tiny bit of adjustment but I just slapped it on and did it while holding up the bike. It was so windy outside I wasn't going to hear it anyway.


(Cloudy phone overview pic)

So the bar-ends, longer chain catcher (in gold) and cable stops were installed today as well as the new decals.

You can tell the 11-speed shifter uses a much larger barrel than the 6-speed Sachs-Huret ones and by slightly unscrewing it you can switch it between index/friction-mode and tighten it down again.

I used some of the gold shifter cable housing from the SilverAce though I have plenty of black housing if I want to tone it down a bit.

As mentioned before there is plenty of room in the frame for a frame bag. I think I will mock something up with paper this weekend and look for a place that can build me a nice custom frame bag.
And as for the Graveller decals, they look great.

JaccoW

Just some more pictures because it was sunny outside.

A new Carradice Bagman QR + support is on its way from the UK and I ordered a Silca Impero Ultimate frame pump. Contacted some custom bag makers to have a frame bag made to size. Last summer a new version of X-Pac was released with the X-Pac X10 cotton duck material. A waterproof laminate that combines cotton duck (like Carradice uses) with a layer of polyester and reinforcements to make a waterproof, lightweight fabric. It looks like a nice canvas bag but is lighter.

Anyhow, more backyard pictures for now. I hope to take it on a ride the next few weeks to begin building some stamina when I ride this bike to Berlin. Should be a fun touring load.

cudak888 

Yeees! Fenders make everything better. They're the rug that really ties this room together, Jacco.

It's a shame TA never did the Pro 5 Vis anodized black. With all the other blackout bits, it's really calling for such a beast.

-Kurt

JaccoW

Almost right? I don't mind the silver bits. They're a nice contrast to all of the black. Perhaps I could ask them.

The fenders do look nice though they are a tight fit in the rear. But all it takes is one ride in the rain to realise why one would want fenders on a bike. And we get plenty of rain around here.

Besides I was planning to order a Tubus Tara stainless steel for my tour this summer. Though that was before I noticed they will come out with a very cool Tubus Tara Titanium that's 200 grams (7 oz.) lighter... at a cool €300 ($365) versus the €65 ($80) for the regular CrMo painted Tara and €85 ($105) for the stainless steel model.
I guess I will stick with the polished stainless steel one...

noglider 

Very nice. We look forward to a ride report.

alexnagui

That's a very stylish build, Jacco. Congrats! I love it.
Where did you make those decals?

JaccoW

Tried fitting a second VO Mojave cage on the downtube. And while 1L (32 oz) Nalgene did fit there was... some rubbing of the chain when shifting. I guess some regular bottles will have to do.

Ride report coming up.

I haven't taken it on longer rides, just 20 km runs between Rotterdam and The Hague. First impressions are that it's a stable ride that can even be ridden without hands.
So far every single ride has been a straight headwind so no opinions on the liveliness of the frame yet.
It is a whole lot stiffer with a load though. With a 5kg bag on the front rack and a 10kg saddlebag the frame didn't flex at all. Whereas when I did the same on my SilverAce commuter bike it was twisting noticeably.
The difference between normal and oversized tubing I guess.

I had them made by Unlimited Colors. Prices seem to be a €15 starting price and then €10 for each decal but prices vary. Just send them an e-mail and they can make a vinyl replica.

JaccoW

Took the bike on a 55km (~35 miles) ride today through the dunes and along the beach today. There is a beautiful cycling path along the coast here that runs the entire length of the country. It's very winding but also very green. I decided to see if some of the Koga BeachRacer DNA was still there, so I rode it on the wet sand of the beach for about 5 km or so. It went better than expected but next time I try this I'm going wider than 40mm, and definitely no rim brakes.
I unhooked the brakes at times when they started to accumulate too much sand and started to drag, the QR on the brake levers are a great feature here but weren't enough.. Not that it was much of an issue to have less brakes, I was riding into a mild headwind and the drag of the sand meant I would come to a stop soon enough whenever I stopped pedaling.

Fortunately there are free public water taps everywhere along this route so I spent quite some time flushing most of it off to make the bike rideable again (and limit wear and tear for the return part).
Deep clean later this weekend.

As for the ride of the bike itself, I think it's fair to say it's a stiff frame with its oversized tubing but the wide tyres make it a very comfortable and plush ride. The steering feels very stable in the corners which is to be expected with its 55mm(?) of trail, basically the bike goes where I point it and it feels... different from the steering on my other lower-trail bikes.
I feel like I want to try this bike with supple tyres but all in all its a very comfortable ride that I could easily ride all day. Shifting is crisp both in the front as well as in the rear and I feel less stretched out than on some of my other bikes.

The Carradice Bagman arrived yesterday and together with some other bits which will arrive later this week I can start thinking of taking it on a tour later this year.

cudak888 

You're a brave soul doing that - and a glutton for punishment knowing you'll have to tear that all apart to clean it.

Given your comments about the tire size - given the considerable number of Koga-Miyatas in your arsenal, perhaps there's yet another frame could turn into a 650B fat tire flyer?

-Kurt