Parkyy16

So I've ridden a handful of fixed gears over the years. Either trying friends' bikes, demos, or owning.

I've tried:
- Kilo WT(owned)
- KHS FLITE 100(demo)
- S-Works Langster(owned)
- SE Draft(borrowed)
- State Bike Co Steel (borrowed)
- Motobecane steel (borrowed)
- 6KU(borrowed)

All these bikes never felt as "supple" as the steel road bikes I've ridden. I'm comparing these fixed gears to similarly priced road bikes like the Soma Smoothie, or Jamis Satellite, not my Breadwinner or Ritchey.

I've sold off all my fixed gears to fund some newer road bikes recently, but I have enough spare parts to put together a reasonable fixed/single speed, but the ride quality is stopping me.

I've debated getting a Soma Rush, Milwaukee Cream City(MUSA by Waterford/Gunnar), or a Wabi Classic, but don't know how nicely these ride. I'm leaning more towards the Wabi due to price and geometry.

Anybody have similar experiences or have reasonable(under $700) frameset recommendations?

Rolla

I think geometry and material play big roles. Some "fixies" try to emulate track bikes, even though most won't ever see a track; their steep STA and HTA aren't as conducive to road conditions. And because a lot of these bikes are relatively cheap, the steel used isn't as supple or nicely butted as on a better road bike, and cheap aluminum can ride pretty stiff.

Of those you're considering, the Wabi looks the most promising. The Milwaukee claims to have "classic track geometry," and the Soma is pretty steep, as well.

You might consider finding an older road or touring frame with forward-facing rear drop-outs, and putting a fixed gear drivetrain and wheel on it. A nice Reynolds or Columbus-tubed frame with longer chainstays and slightly less "racy" angles would probably give you the ride quality you're looking for.

79pmooney

+1 My workhorse rain/city/winter fix gear that is a fixture in my stable had an early '80s Japanese built Schwinn frame. Fun ride! It is currently an '83 Trek 4-hundred something. Very able but the tubes aren't quite as sweet. 2006 I built up a summer road fix gear around a 501 Reynolds sport Peugeot frame. Fun!! (except the BB was way, way too low!) So much fun I had a local framebuilder make me a custom version with almost exactly that geometry but kicking the BB up a lot and using a very long "L" shaped dropout that runs forward, then opens down (so a wheel can be ridden slid all the way forward and removing it is as simple as a regular vertical dropout). The bike of my logo to the left.

I'm waiting for the day when some manufacturer has the brainy idea of making a dual purpose bike; a road bike with all the gears that can double as a fix gear/single speed with an hour of work to make the change and turn it into a completely different bike. (A concept sorta like the bikes ridden and raced for 60-70 years but don't tell that brainy one that. )

Edit: I've ridden cheap road bike fix gears (and this not so cheap custom "copy") for 45 years and some 100,000 miles. Never owned a track bike, track bike imitation or any bike with track ends (the "dropouts" that open to the rear. Dropout in quotes because a dropout refers specifically to one that opens forward or down so the derailleur wheel with gear cluster "drops out" easily and fast for racing tire/wheel changes. I have a little experience here using those bikes fixed. (And a real plus of the road dropouts with the adjusting screws - you can set them for optimum chain slack. Makes post flat wheel replacement brain-dead easy - very useful when you are stupid from very hard rides, a long day, appropriate (or otherwise) substances, impediments like rain and snow. My workhorse fix gear has seen every combination of the above and flats with most of them.)

A trick for clean hands and easy chain management when you flat or want to flip the wheel to use another cog - use a chain peg; that little nub that comes on some high end bikes' seatstay that mechanics use to hang the chain on as they remove the rear wheel. If you use a bike with fender eyes- that chainhanger is easy to make. Get a screw and nut and run them into the eye from the inside, using the nut as a locknut against the eye threads. (No threads on the eye? Slightly longer screw and nuts on both sides.) Now, when you remove the wheel, you simply lift off the chain and drop it on the screwhead. Lay the bike down minus wheel on its drive side. Chain stays on the chainring and everything stays easy. The Pedros Trixire is the perfect hub wrench for hanging the chain with its spanner. I've done this hundreds of times with clean hands.

For that custom, instead of using the drilled and threaded fender eye which does get a little more complicated when the fender is thrown in as well, we simply drilled and threaded a second hole.

Oh - and I do have the classic English fix gear road bike. Except it isn't either English nor conceived as a fix gear, The 1979 Peter Mooney of my username. That bike was ordered as a bike to do everything over my post head injury years. I spec'ed horizontal dropout just so I could go fix gear although I knew this bike never would. Well, 2017, Cycle Oregon announced they were returning to Crater Lake; the north entrance. But - they were also adding 30 miles of gravel with several ascents/descents of 1000"+. No way I was doing that on my logo bike and 25c tires! Not in my 60s! But that Mooney - horizontal dropouts! It could handle 35c tires. And with a little creativity, it could run as a fix gear with three very different gear ratios. I went for it. Yes, as a fix gear gravel bike it ruled. But, with road wheels - the completely classic English road ride! All there! The sweet 531 tubing. Road geometry from a master. And the simple elegance to go with it.

Find a good road bike! Horizontal dropouts - a must. Highish BB/small BB drop. I run 175 cranks and try to find a BB height of 10-3/4". 10-5/8" is acceptable (My Trek with 28c tires. My custom has 10-7/8" with 25c and is simply a joy! And when you find that joy to ride - don't thank me. Turn somebody else on to the joy!

zandoval 

If ya could find one. Motobecane Columbus SL with that long sweep on the fork... That's comfort!

Parkyy16

Unfortunately, I've got a spare set of fixed gear wheelset that won't fit the older frames without cold setting them. I do agree that geo matters a lot on the ride quality though. I got into the nitty-gritty of road bike geo when ordering the Breadwinner, so I have a pretty good idea on what exact geo numbers are affecting the ride quality difference between the track and road frames I've tried. The reason the Wabi's are on my shortlist was the geo. Still pretty steep seat tube angle with a long reach, but a 72° headtube with a reasonable fork rake will give a slightly longer wheelbase and less toe overlap. I wish the chainstays were slightly longer at 410-415 instead of 400, the seat tube angle a bit slacker, and the reach a bit shorter, but can't get everything from a stock frame, I guess.

I've stopped caring too much about the tube brands because one of the nicest riding frames I've ridden, Jamis Satellite Comp, had the regular 4130 tubes. That bike was proper smooth. Not at all "stiff feeling" at the bottom bracket, but so comfortable. I've since ridden Columbus Sprit, Life, Ritchey Logic Tubing, Tange Prestige Heat Treated, and various versions of Reynolds. I know the tubing diameter matters most, so I now look look out for tubing diameter more than the tubing brand, although those numbers are hard to find without contacting the manufacturer. If it happens to be butted at 0.8/0.8/0.8 for a standard tube or 0.7/0.4/0.7 OS, that's just a bonus. I would really like to try a Ritchey Road Logic in their rim brake model sometime. The disc version I have rides very well, but I can tell they've beefed up the tubing slightly for the disc brakes, but I digress.

I may end up getting a frame with sliding dropouts and running a single speed on a gravel frame. Probably will be much more comfortable than any stock fixed gears available. There's a few brands out there doing Paragon Machine Works sliders in the rear to accommodate single speed conversions.

Parkyy16

They do! Chumba Cycles here in Austin, TX have sliding dropouts in the rear so you can run fixed with a spare rear wheel. If you want to run it fixed, you can get a thru-axle disc brake hub from Paul components(Paul Disk Word) as your spare wheel, and run a square taper bottom bracket for quick crankset changes.

There's a handful of other bike manufacturers that do sliding thru-axle disc brake frames, although it's not common yet. Much more common in the hardtail MTBs to have sliding dropouts. Here's a picture from their website:

Rolla

The spare wheelset is moot, in that case.

If you want something cheaper than a Terlingua, the Black Mountain Monster Cross can easily be set up for singlespeed if you're okay with cantis. Very comfortable frame.

FWIW, my singlespeed CX bike is the one I reach for most often.

Parkyy16

Good point on the spare wheelset. My reasoning there made no sense, hahaha

I'm wanting to get a bike to air travel with, whether it's geared or fixed/ss, hence my completely scattered thought process. Fixed is an option due to simplicity while traveling and since I already have a lot of the parts. I've looked at the BMC Monster Cross quite a bit, and it's on my list of geared frames I'm considering, if I'm buying new. Been mostly looking at the used market, looking for a used Ritchey Road Logic, Ritchey Breakaway, Wabi, 90s steel and ti frames, etc. Mostly looking at used (if getting a geared bike) since it'll be used for travel and it's bound to get banged up from the flight. I was initially only looking for an S&S coupled or Break Away bike, but the folks on the Touring forum informed me that most airlines aren't charging bike fees anymore, so I've changed my direction.

veganbikes

My Single Speed/Fixed Gear RandoCross FunTime Machine built on a Cinelli Mash Work frame is pretty darn comfy granted I set it up to be comfy, nice 38mm tires, plenty of spacers on the steerer tube and a titanium seatpost. However it isn't such an aggressive track geo. If I could build it again but in similar styling I would go with a nicer custom steel frame and a lower trail fork but beyond that I really feel fairly comfortable on it as is. It all comes down to materials and geometry as others have stated.

If you know what geo you want-ish and don't mind spending a little bit (not much) The Ren Cycles Yarak can be had with custom features out the wazoo for not a ton of money. Titanium frame with a nicer more upright geometry maybe even something similar to your Breadwinner with track ends would be the bee's knees covered in the cat's pajamas. That is my next bike when I sell at least two or three other bikes and find someone interested in my Langster Rio frame. The price isn't terrible so I can make it happen, though my build on it would be ridiculous because there is some components I have wanted forever that would look so grand on it.

Lazyass

Wheels/tires/pressure has more to do with ride quality than the frame.

But if you want a butter smooth ride get a Wabi with 27mm Challenge Paris-Roubaix 320 TPI open tubular tires. They actually measure 28 and they're really tall. That's the biggest tire you'll fit on the frame.

Parkyy16

I've been fairly consistent with tires, tire pressure, saddle, and seatpost. The Kilo WT had various different tires over the years, but always 32mm or 35mm at 60-70psi, depending on the conditions. The road bikes have had 25mm-30mm, at 70-85psi. Even with the wider tires on the Kilo WT, the frame just rode harshly compared to the steel road bikes I've had with narrower tires.

Any issues with the wabi? I know they've changed ownership over the years, but seems like the quality is still there. I'd love to get their Rhodium Blue frameset when it comes back in stock.

TejanoTrackie 

The frames and wheels are made in Taiwan, so the quality is good. The other components are rather mundane Chinese parts, and you will find yourself changing most of them out over time. As to ownership, the original owner Richard Snook in LA was really knowledgeable and great on customer service. The original Wabi offered lots of customizing options at no additional cost, such as gearing, crank arm length, stem length, bar width, etc. The second Wabi in Tulsa was a complete disaster, and practically drove the brand into the ground. The current Colorado Wabi seems to have a competent and honest owner, and I recently bought a wheelset from them with zero issues. They don't seem to have as many customizing options, and it seems like they have downgraded the quality on some components, while their prices have increased significantly, although it seems like bike prices are increasing everywhere. One past issue with the Wabi Classic frame was that it lacked clearances for some cranksets and tires over 28mm wide. Also the rims on the Wabi wheels are very narrow, so tires over 28mm wide tend to be very light-bulb ish. Of course, this is all moot atm, since all bikes and frames are out of stock and not even available for pre-order.

Parkyy16

This is great info and along the lines of what I've heard about the ownership. I bought a set of wheels from them back in 2014ish when Richard still owned Wabi and they're pretty decent for the price, but definitely too narrow to run 30mm or wider. 25mm were perfect on them. It's actually the spare wheelset I keep talking about in this thread.
Good to hear that the current owner is competent. It seems like the current version of the Wabi Classic fits 32mm tires, which is encouraging as well. I'll probably run 28mm, since the rims are so narrow.

TugaDude

Nice beefy tires, but those white hubs rock!

Lazyass

I my opinion, Wabi has the quality of a high end custom framebuilder. Just the way the front and rear dropouts are are filed down smooth and you can't see the joints, I've had expensive vintage steel frames that weren't as good of a quality. I'd love to know who actually builds their frames.

veganbikes

I would not go that far. They are certainly nicer frames but comparing them to say a Chris Bishop or Don Walker (fac ebook . com/DonWalkerCycles/) is just wrong. I get that they use some nicer tubes and overall have a better overall package than most of the online fixed gears but let's not go crazy.

I would own a Wabi but I would rather have a bike made by the Don (and not just because I am part Scottish)

Lazyass

Don't get me wrong, I'm not comparing it to a super expensive custom frame but I've had frames like my old Serotta and Wabi approaches that level. In my opinion of course.

As an example, the first pic is my mass produced Handmade in the USA Trek '86 Trek 560. Reynolds 531 and their top of the line bike that year. And then the Wabi. No, of course it's not on the same level as a $4000 Don Walker work of art but it's up there with a lot of lower priced custom builders I've seen. I've never seen a mass produced bike with the dropouts hand filed down.

Ymerej

The don walker frames look amazing never seen one in person only RHC photos.
However for me my allez is pretty goddamm good👍

Cheers!

veganbikes

You kinda made it feel like that but a solid explanation so good stuff. Certainly they do have some quality but I think that is the idea. Enough cheap-o stuff lets get something pretty decent on the market and people will buy it and they have.

tommymc

Last week I rescued my '70s English Dawes Galaxy touring bike from the barn and did a SS fixed conversion on it. All I had to do was pull the triple crank, shifters and derailleurs. The 126mm dropout was easily squeezed to a fixed hub. A new crank and chain and we rode. The frame is 531 with a long wheelbase and low BB. I haven't ridden anything smoother or more comfortable. The 35c slick Gravelkings could be part of it. The closest thing to me is my '81 Trek. 614 with a similar frame on 27 x 1-1/4" Paselas. I also have a Wabi Classic. That being

2 or 3 lbs. lighter it is much more agile but still comfortable on 28c rubber. It is my ride of choice for smooth roads and when I don't need to carry milk, beer or the like.

An old road bike conversion will cost minimal depending on the attic inventory but the pleasure per dollar has to be the best.

jay4usc

I bought the Wabi classic last July and it’s been a great bike. The wheel sets that came with my bike are very narrow 12.5 and I can’t see you mounting 32s on them. 28s will be the max you can mount on them.

tommymc

I had a Pasela 32c on a Dyad rim that fit my Wabi. It was close but worked. Maybe your narrow rim pushes the tire diameter up a little.

Dylansbob 

My understanding is that "track" bikes are made for power transfer, not ride quality. You're supposed to be riding them around a circle on a smooth track. Part of it is angles, especially with short offset forks and part of it is tubing thickness and/or butting profiles.
My '71 Raleigh Pro track bike is made of the same full 531 tubing as my '72 Raleigh Pro road bike, but it rides way stiffer in all directions.
All of the bikes the OP lists are modern, track-ish bikes made during or after the "fixie boom". As such, all are made to a pricepoint that doesn't allow for ride quality consideration.

If you want to increase ride quality, look for softer/bigger tires and/or a flexible ti or carbon seatpost.

jay4usc

32s will fit with the rims but it doesn’t make sense to mount them on narrow rims.

Lazyass

It doesn't hurt anything. My Swobo Accomplice came with 18mm external rims and 42mm tires. Yeah they bulged out some and it was an odd parts selection but the ride was fine.