scozim 

I was coming past my physical therapist's house a little bit ago as he was finishing a ride so I stopped in to say hi. Then I get the "hey, you want to look at a steel bike for me?" Well, of course.

it was his wife's bike. She doesn't ride anymore. As a side note his early 80's Pinarello was below his wife's bike. He says he's never selling. Told him if he changes his mind I'm interested.

Anyway, here's the bike in question. No decals and the head tube badge is missing. Nice frame - seat post is 27.2 so I suspect Columbus tubing. She bought it from a racer in North Carolina 37 yrs ago as a frame and then it was built up with Campagnolo parts. Wheels are an interesting 27". Dropouts are Campagnolo.

Thoughts on what it might be? Admittedly the photos aren't great as there wasn't a lot of space.

juvela

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Raleigh International, early 1970's



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machinist42

Did she acquire the bike in Raleigh, NC?

Except for the top tube cable guidance, it sure looks very International?





(My efforts at clever once again have me tardy to the party.)

nlerner

I agree it’s a Raleigh Intl that has been modded with downtube shifter mounts and rear brake cable guides moved to the top of the top tube. Serial # would be a good clue.

scozim 

Forgot I took a pic of the serial number although the flash washed part of it out

nlerner

^ I’m afraid the part that’s washed out is most important. If it’s a Raleigh, the first three digits will be WXY where w=Worksop, x=fortnight of production, y=year of production, e.g., W14 = Jan 1974. Also, based on the # you show, it’s not real early but ‘73 or later, I believe. Earlier ones had a different numbering convention.

nlerner

Also looks to be a hole in the underside of the chainstay in that pic though perhaps just a dirt fleck.

P!N20

Did you get any pictures?

oneclick 

Yes - pull that BB and have a *good* look inside with a light.

scozim 

Hah, no. I've ridden with him when he was using it. I don't think he's ridden it in at least 6-7 years. It's black and the only way you know it's a Pinarello is the head tube badge/decal. The other decals are no longer on it. He bought the bike new.

scozim 

I would vote first for dirt as the frame is pretty dirty and greasy in that area. I'll definitely pass it on. His wife has had a couple of serious injuries after crashing on it and doesn't ride anymore so it just hangs on the stand in their garage.

Hummer

Raleigh serial numbers starting in 1973, the second character was for the month of production, not the fortnight. There is a table that shows which letter represented which month.
The second character was always a letter, not a number.

The first digit 4 in this serial number would be the year 1974.

nlerner

Well, we're both close, at least according to Sheldon Brown:

Hummer

I am always amazed by different peoples analysis of bicycle serial numbers. When part of the serial number is a letter used to indicate a time period within a year the assumption is that all 26 letters are used and therefore the time period is a fortnight. This analysis is often based on a small sample size.

I do not rely on Sheldon Brown. I have done my own analysis of Raleigh serial numbers beginning from 1973.

Here is my sample size:

Worksop serial numbers 300. from 1973 to 1990
Nottingham 75. 1974 to 1987
Gazelle of Holland 6. 1976 to 1980
Raleigh Canada 174. 1975 to 2010

total 455 observations.

In the serial number system if all 26 letters of the alphabet were used to indicate a time within the year, then within this number of observations it is reasonable to expect to find all or almost all 26 letters.

In fact this is not the case.

As an example the letters T, U, V, W, X, Y, and Z are never found for the date charater in all the observations I have made. If the date charater is fortnight then these letters would represent the weeks for the last three months of the year, October, November and December. This would mean that Raleigh factories in Canada, Nottingham and Worksop made very few or no bicycles in those months.

Maybe that is true. I find that difficult to believe.


This type written document explains the Raleigh serial number system.




this image is copied from https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...erial-numbers/

Also see: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31243415@N02/4573383339/ where this image was posted in the year 2010.

If you go to United Kingdom/Europe based websites and forums that discuss Raleigh bicycles, the information in the above document is commonly used for dating Raleigh bicycles.

https://raleigh-sb4059.com/2018/08/3...ucts-division/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/studio...uis/4333863785

nlerner

Glad to see you won the Internet today! You might want to work on your attribution, however. That serial # chart looked familiar to me, and I then remembered seeing it on Mark Bulgier’s site:

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalo...ialNumbers.jpg

There’s no attribution there, but we can ask @bulgie if he remembers. I vaguely remember Don Gillies was the source but do not know for sure or where he got that info. Clearly, it’s a scanned page from somewhere, hopefully a credible source.

bulgie 

Retro-Raleighs was a website hosted by Ray "Don" Chong. (No, he didn't actually go by Don, that was just me, a riff on Rae Dawn Chong, famous among bikies for her 10-second wheel change in the bike racing move American Flyers)When Ray didn't want to do a website anymore, I asked if I could host his files, and he sent them to me. Later, Sheldon Brown also got the Retro-Raleighs files and did them up right, adding a lot of extra value in the process. My version is just a list of files to download with no HTML; Sheldon's is the definitive home of Retro-Raleighs. The only reason mine still exists is because I'm a packrat who never throws anything away.

I don't know who/where Ray's sources were for Retro-Raleighs. I lost touch with him, don't have contact info for him anymore. If anyone here knows him, maybe you could ask about the ser.# chart, in case he remembers. Also ask him if he still likes the frame I built for him in about '98. All stainless steel; he named it "Inox". But only report back if the answer is yes he still likes it.

Mark B