Bottecchia
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Bottecchia
I came across this Bottechia. Any idea what it's worth? I know they're desireable but I haven't had much time to research value. I'm scheduled to meeti a different seller today regarding an 80s Team Miyata which, at 54cm, is my size (and I think may be had for the right price).
In addition to value, what size do you think it is? I'm guessing it's a 52CM? How would it compare to an 80s Team Miyata?
Thanks.
Thanks!
In addition to value, what size do you think it is? I'm guessing it's a 52CM? How would it compare to an 80s Team Miyata?
Thanks.
Thanks!
Last edited by Mdl; 07-19-21 at 08:04 AM.
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This bike is in a different solar system than the Miyata.
It looks like a fillet brazed frame and possibly EL-OS ? judging from the big tubes and oversize headset. That is a very nice frameset . Because the frame tubes are large, this bike could be a 53c , maybe even a 54 depending on how it is measured
As well, looks like a unified Campagnolo build kit in very nice condition. The only thing odd about this bike is the stem choice, but that was probably done to suit someone who needed the bars higher to use the aero clip ons
It looks like a fillet brazed frame and possibly EL-OS ? judging from the big tubes and oversize headset. That is a very nice frameset . Because the frame tubes are large, this bike could be a 53c , maybe even a 54 depending on how it is measured
As well, looks like a unified Campagnolo build kit in very nice condition. The only thing odd about this bike is the stem choice, but that was probably done to suit someone who needed the bars higher to use the aero clip ons
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I have a hard time visualizing sizes of OS tubing. That is definitely an EL sticker, so it's newer than the Miyata. Is your plan to ride as is, modify it, what?
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Seriously, what do we know about Bottecchias? Where are they on the grail scale of Italian bikes? What is it worth? It's almost 2 hours away vs. 20 mins for the Miyata - whose seller wants to meet today. What to do?
Last edited by Mdl; 07-19-21 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Typos
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I can't see very well from the pictures, but part of the reason I asked was that, if you were planning on taking the vintage parts off the bike and putting modern parts on, the Bottecchia is more likely to have a 130 mm rear triangle, which would fit modern wheels more easily.
If they are the same size and in similar condition (and similar prices), it's about which one speaks to you more. I've always wanted to try an EL-OS bike, but I've also always sort of lusted after one of those Team Koga-Miyata bikes (assuming the blue and gold paint job). I think Bottecchia was a step down from the Masis and De Rosas and Cioccs (may have been contract built by someone else), so they are not like the top end grail bikes, but are pretty nice bikes on their own. At least that was my (very limitted) understanding.
If they are the same size and in similar condition (and similar prices), it's about which one speaks to you more. I've always wanted to try an EL-OS bike, but I've also always sort of lusted after one of those Team Koga-Miyata bikes (assuming the blue and gold paint job). I think Bottecchia was a step down from the Masis and De Rosas and Cioccs (may have been contract built by someone else), so they are not like the top end grail bikes, but are pretty nice bikes on their own. At least that was my (very limitted) understanding.
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The stem choice might also be due to someone wanting fatter bars for whatever reason, but yeah they definitely stand out as a lower end option on a really nice build.
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Grail scale? 2nd tier Top tier would be DeRosa, Colnago, some Bianchi's and Pinarellos (probably a couple more )
2nd tier would be : Almost everything else
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I can't see very well from the pictures, but part of the reason I asked was that, if you were planning on taking the vintage parts off the bike and putting modern parts on, the Bottecchia is more likely to have a 130 mm rear triangle, which would fit modern wheels more easily.
If they are the same size and in similar condition (and similar prices), it's about which one speaks to you more. I've always wanted to try an EL-OS bike, but I've also always sort of lusted after one of those Team Koga-Miyata bikes (assuming the blue and gold paint job). I think Bottecchia was a step down from the Masis and De Rosas and Cioccs (may have been contract built by someone else), so they are not like the top end grail bikes, but are pretty nice bikes on their own. At least that was my (very limitted) understanding.
If they are the same size and in similar condition (and similar prices), it's about which one speaks to you more. I've always wanted to try an EL-OS bike, but I've also always sort of lusted after one of those Team Koga-Miyata bikes (assuming the blue and gold paint job). I think Bottecchia was a step down from the Masis and De Rosas and Cioccs (may have been contract built by someone else), so they are not like the top end grail bikes, but are pretty nice bikes on their own. At least that was my (very limitted) understanding.
I test rode a 3Rensho Katana Pro before Covid. Sweet bike. But $895 and too tall. I wonder whether there will be similarities…and what drives value regarding that brand?
Last edited by Mdl; 07-19-21 at 03:05 PM.
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I think koga-miyata doesn't have the name cache of an italian brand, but a team-pro (if that's what you're looking at) from the early 80's was a high quality bike for sure.
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If they were the same price, I would get the Bottecchia. That is some better Campy stuff on that bike. Those look like 8-speed downtube shifters, which get some bucks. Being bikeforums and all, the correct answer is to get both. Keep what you want and offset it with what you don't.
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So, did you come home with the Miyata?
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No. I'm conflicted about it because it was an excellent ride. However....I suppose I'm looking for something in better cosemetic condition, I just restored a 1985 Ross Mt. Hood. Spent a few hours in my very hot garage polishing chrome. I guess, subliminally, I had decided to treat myself to something that didn't need work.
Last edited by Mdl; 07-20-21 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Added picture
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If they were the same price, I would get the Bottecchia. That is some better Campy stuff on that bike. Those look like 8-speed downtube shifters, which get some bucks. Being bikeforums and all, the correct answer is to get both. Keep what you want and offset it with what you don't.
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If they were the same price, I would get the Bottecchia. That is some better Campy stuff on that bike. Those look like 8-speed downtube shifters, which get some bucks. Being bikeforums and all, the correct answer is to get both. Keep what you want and offset it with what you don't.
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...just because you've started several threads, and all of them speak of test rides.
This is only my personal experience based opinion, but I can't tell jack about a bike from test riding it.
If you have a good idea of the proper size and setup you find comfortable, but something that is exactly the frame size you need, and before you buy it, factor in anything you'll need to change out, like a longer or shorter stem, different saddle and post, lighter tyres, or in the worst case scenario, better wheels/rims. All that stuff will cost you extra money, but without it, you really won't enjoy the bike, so it's an expense you need to add in to the pricing equation. Your most important evaluation tools are your eyes, your hands, and a tape measure. Some people routinely check for stuck seat posts and stems, and for that you need a couple of Y wrenches.
The differences between this, that Kellogg Ross, and the PX-10 are too numerous for me to list. They're all very different animals.
...just because you've started several threads, and all of them speak of test rides.
This is only my personal experience based opinion, but I can't tell jack about a bike from test riding it.
If you have a good idea of the proper size and setup you find comfortable, but something that is exactly the frame size you need, and before you buy it, factor in anything you'll need to change out, like a longer or shorter stem, different saddle and post, lighter tyres, or in the worst case scenario, better wheels/rims. All that stuff will cost you extra money, but without it, you really won't enjoy the bike, so it's an expense you need to add in to the pricing equation. Your most important evaluation tools are your eyes, your hands, and a tape measure. Some people routinely check for stuck seat posts and stems, and for that you need a couple of Y wrenches.
The differences between this, that Kellogg Ross, and the PX-10 are too numerous for me to list. They're all very different animals.
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...just because you've started several threads, and all of them speak of test rides.
This is only my personal experience based opinion, but I can't tell jack about a bike from test riding it.
If you have a good idea of the proper size and setup you find comfortable, but something that is exactly the frame size you need, and before you buy it, factor in anything you'll need to change out, like a longer or shorter stem, different saddle and post, lighter tyres, or in the worst case scenario, better wheels/rims. All that stuff will cost you extra money, but without it, you really won't enjoy the bike, so it's an expense you need to add in to the pricing equation. Your most important evaluation tools are your eyes, your hands, and a tape measure. Some people routinely check for stuck seat posts and stems, and for that you need a couple of Y wrenches.
The differences between this, that Kellogg Ross, and the PX-10 are too numerous for me to list. They're all very different animals.
...just because you've started several threads, and all of them speak of test rides.
This is only my personal experience based opinion, but I can't tell jack about a bike from test riding it.
If you have a good idea of the proper size and setup you find comfortable, but something that is exactly the frame size you need, and before you buy it, factor in anything you'll need to change out, like a longer or shorter stem, different saddle and post, lighter tyres, or in the worst case scenario, better wheels/rims. All that stuff will cost you extra money, but without it, you really won't enjoy the bike, so it's an expense you need to add in to the pricing equation. Your most important evaluation tools are your eyes, your hands, and a tape measure. Some people routinely check for stuck seat posts and stems, and for that you need a couple of Y wrenches.
The differences between this, that Kellogg Ross, and the PX-10 are too numerous for me to list. They're all very different animals.
Thanks for thanking the time to provide your very insightful response. I will definitely take your advice.
My thought was I’d like to see what a bike in my size and in lightweight steel, akin to Reynolds butted tubing, would feel like across different styles (tourer, racer, etc.) so that I’d know which one I prefer.
So far, based on test rides, I’ve ruled out ill fitting sizes and aluminum and carbon fiber frames. The former material being too hard and the latter too…dead. I’ve also gained first hand experience regarding component quality. So now I know, based on the too large steel bikes I’ve tested, I prefer steel, I understand the effect of top tube length in comfort and I’m looking for higher quality components. Lastly, condition and its effect on value/time, plus your inputs.
Thank you again.
Now, maybe the solution is to just order a bike off of eBay. Bring the bike to me.
Last edited by Mdl; 07-22-21 at 11:18 PM.
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...you're welcome. This forum has historically been littered with complaints about ebay purchases of bikes. Many times it takes the form of something wrong with the frame that could have been spotted with an in person examination. Other times it takes the form of a terrible packing job for shipping. They do look tempting on there, but getting one to your house is not always as easy as it seems.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, because it does seem like you are located someplace where everything you see on CL is a distant drive away.
But those are the facts as I understand them.
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I am better at identifying 1980s Campy, but this looks like early 1990s Chorus. Others will correct me if I am wrong. Velobase.com will help you identify components.
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I'd go for the Bott if it fit or close. Adjustments can be made. You need to know your range of adaptability. Mine is about 58 to 61 with 59 about right.
Agree with the Chorus assessment.
Agree with the Chorus assessment.
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I'm kicking myself this morning for not grabbing a 1984 Miyata Team SL in my size that was sold on eBay yesterday. The paint was a little rough and it would have required cold-setting for the way I wanted to use it, but I've really wanted one of those even though they're not super light.