cyber.snow

I am replacing my straight MBT type handlebars with a Jones bar. In doing so, I noticed that my hydraulic disc brake lines are a little short. My bike has 160mm brakes. The last time I took my wife's bike to the LBS it cost me around $100 to adjust the lengths and re bleed the brakes. I was reading on a couple of other threads and forums that mechanical disc brake systems require a little more adjusting but are much more reliable for remote touring purposes.

So my question is: Pay the $100 to stay with hydraulics or pay about $175 to go to Avid BB7s (or another mechanical system)?

350htrr

Well now, I guess that is dependant on cost, versus reliability, versus maintenance... Oh yea, versus... The most important, IMO, next to reliability/How good the hydraulic disc brakes are, compared to any other type, not counting cost...

I have had my disc brakes for 16 years, 38,000KM+... NEVER, a problem, NEVER, a moment where I was thinking maybe other brakes would be as good, NEVER, and I mean never, even a different feel, wet or dry, the same modulation in either situation, and the same effect in either situation, wet or dry. A perfect system over all... There IS a reason vehicles are basically all disc brakes F & R today, tho It took 40+ years...

Cost, for some people its cost, or weight. Reliability, well now, the only thing I ever did so far is change brake pads, I have never, ever, even adjusted the brakes, for the last 16 years, and they work like the first day I got them...

linus

Why would you want to downgrade your brakes for $175?

manapua_man

To be honest I've found hydros to be a lot easier to deal with over time than mechanical discs. Why not get a bleed kit and the tools for running your own hoses?

djb

this is my take on it--as someone who has mech discs on my latest tourer set up as more of an expedition bike, so mechanical was the way to go, no issues with possibilities of line damage and fluid issues, and they (BB7) worked perfectly fine--translate that to, worked wonderfully, in all kinds of mountainous terrain for a bike weighing about 30lbs, rider 135/140tops, and gear of about 45-55lbs.

my criteria for mech. was purely from the logistic side of things, I didnt want to worry about lines or whatnot if my bike had to be strapped onto the roof of a 1970s school bus in Guatemala and then have God knows what then piled on top of it as more people got on the bus. This didnt happen, but is the sort of thing that could happen, and as I was learning disc maintenance and whatnot, I didnt want to have to deal with bleeding or whatever as well.

I've had lot of motorcycles, and have had a seal go on the resevoir of a disc brake system, but this is very rare--damage to a line though is something that coiuld happen, so I was glad I used mechanicals just because working on them is easier, and frankly, as someone who has toured with rim brakes for a long time, and in mountains, the "old" BB7's were a huge step up in braking power, less hand/finger force required, and a lot more confidence in being able to haul down a loaded bike to a manageable speed for potholes, speed bumps, or whatever my trip could throw at me.

I am aware that shimano and others have wonderful, inexpensive hydraulic systems now, and I have a lot of confidence in Shimano etc, especially when gazillions of their brake systems are on gazillions of mtn bikes, so for me it comes down to what sort of riding you are doing and where.

to repeat though, my BB7s which are pretty much 10 year old technology now, work pretty darn well, and Spyre and others make better mech systems now also.

* I was very , very impressed by how little brake pad wear I had on my front pads during my nearly 3000km trip. They were not new before the trip, but with just a bit of wear, but they still have about 2mm of pad material left on them, and I suspect that on varied terrain, they could last another 5000km easily.

* I set up my bike with drop bars and Tektro road levers, ones made for mtn bike BB7s, (long pull I think, but I get it mixed up, been a long time since I ordered and set up the bike, so forget)

J.Higgins 

Go for the gold.

Get yourself a set of Paul Klampers, Paul levers, and a set of Yokozuna Reaction low-compression cables. Darn close to the feel of hydro brakes, and none of the worries.

BikeLite

I would try to do the work myself rather than overpay an lbs.

350htrr

What worries.? a quality hydraulic brake system, in reality has less worries and more benefits, that any other brake system out there... in my Experience.

FrontRanger

I've ridden some of the best mechanical disc brakes on the market, and none matched the power, modulation, and lack of maintenance required by hydraulics. Spend the money, cry once.

kevrider

i have no input, but it is a relevant thread for me, as i think about how to set up a trekking bike. i am a mtn biker so would prefer hydros. touring convention frowns upon this due to reliability concerns, but.... when do they ever really fail? i've never had my hydros fail, nor have i heard of such a thing happening....

likewise, i've never had road bike STI brifters have never fail and don't know anyone who has, another no-no... [shrug]

FBinNY 

I don't have a dog in this fight, since I'm still very committed to caliper rim brakes.

However, you didn't mention a third option which might make the most sense.

Hydraulic brakes aren't that hard to service, so it might make the most sense to overcome that lack of knowledge, spend small $$$ on things like line, a bleed kit and some fittings, then you'll be good to go.

geoffs

Avid BB7's were great when they first came out. We have changed from BB7's to TRP Sprye's on the tandem which are a noticeable improvement and they provide much better clearance for the rear pannier rack.
My wife has Formula R1's on her commuter/tourer and they are amazingly good. Bleeding them isn't hard, just watch a few youtube videos on how to do it

djb

Snow-white do you have touring plans with this bike and where?

2 Piece

Stay with hydraulic, and learn how to do it your self. Its not that hard.

cyber.snow

I have done a little more research and upgrading to a current technology mechanical system is much closer to $300.

The Jones bar is due to be delivered on Wednesday. I will see how short the hydraulic lines are. To do it myself, it will cost almost the same ~$100 by the time you buy the kit needed to bleed the Shimano 445 brakes, additional tubing kit and connector hardware along with a larger amount of fluid. Is there a kit available from someone that contains all the parts that I need? I can't trust Amazon as their folks don't have a clue and I live over 110 miles from the nearest LBS.

linus

Get it done by LBS first. When you have time and just maintaining the brakes(bleeding), try for yourself.

$100 is cheap. I wouldn't do it for the cost.

J.Higgins 

I agree with all of you about hydraulic brakes. I was only mentioning the Klampers for the benefit of people who are still squeamish about hydraulics. The Yokozuna cables, for those of you who have not tried them yet, are very excellent. I consider them to be the best upgrade that you could do for a mechanical system.

mev

My input depends on where you are touring as well as your abilities to maintain/service.

If your touring is in lower-48 US States, Canadian provinces and similar areas - and doesn't involve a lot of extra "wear and tear" taking on/off the bike - I'd probably stay with what you know, and keep hydraulic brakes.

If you are in more of an expedition mode further afield or have wear and tear similar to the Guatemalan bus scenario described by djb, I'd consider mechanical brakes and stick to a tried and true.

I am probably a case that most stresses brake systems - with four factors coming together (1) I'm heavy and bike+gear adds up (2) I'm very cautious and use brakes a fair amount on descents (3) not the most mechanically inclined (4) I've done some touring in developing world.

I first used hydraulic disc brakes on my mountain bike on the supported TDA ride across Africa (TDA has recommendations *against* hydraulics because of reliability but I already had the bike and brought a fill kit with me "just in case"). Other than replacing pads along the way, my brakes worked fine. However, at least one other rider had a hydraulic line severed by an Ethiopian child throwing a rock and in one other case the TDA mechanics ended up filling/adjusting hydraulic fluid on a bike. My takeaway was that if you brought a fill kit + was mechanically enough inclined you can probably deal with many scenarios but if not - I would be cautious with touring in Ethiopia or similar places where lines might be damaged.

A supported ride like TDA also introduced potential for extra wear/tear on the bikes since we occasionally put them on vehicles and often parked/locked them together. While no lines were damaged that I know of, I do think a derailleur hanger or two got extended by parking/packing.

On my current trip across the Americas, I had a different mountain bike retrofitted. It originally came with caliper brakes, but the frame also had disc brake mounts (so higher end models using the same frame could be sold with disc brakes). I had a local bike shop replace the caliper brakes with Avid BB7 brakes. I like the mechanical brakes because I've got less wearing down my rims and stopping power is better than the caliper brakes. I've gotten assistance along the way replacing pads and checking adjustments. In Central America at least, some bike shops in the largest cities seem to carry brake pads compatible with Avid BB7 (perhaps others as well, but I haven't checked but can vouch for Guadalajara, Guatemala City, Tegucigalpa). Carry some extra pads as well as a rotor.

My takeaway is that at least for me, touring in places where either I might get damage to the hydraulic lines or rely on bike shops in more remote places(*) that mechanical brakes are preferred. Hence, if you were about to do a major expedition I'd consider changing brakes anyways but otherwise can see sticking with what you already have.

If I were starting from complete "ground zero" and having a choice of picking either mechanical or hydraulic disc brakes for a new build (not retrofit) - then I'd bias towards mechanical disc brakes for a tour in developing world.

(*) It isn't that there aren't reasonable bike shops in developing world - if you can get to the larger cities I expect you'll find equivalent stuff in Nairobi, Addis Ababa, Guatemala City, Managua, Lima, etc to bike shops in US. However, it isn't always easy to navigate your way around cities in developing world to follow word of mouth to find these bike shops (Google and internet are getting better). Also getting replacement parts can sometimes be challenging.

Tourist in MSN

I am going to stay out of the never ending debate on which type of brake to use and just be pragmatic.

If you have two hoses that will be too short, if you think about it you might actually have one hose that is a bit too long and one hose that is really short. In other words, can you move the long rear hose to the front and then only buy one new hose?

And if you did not want to buy a new hose, maybe switch the rear hose to front and then go to a new mechanical for rear?

cyccommute 

Then your experience must be very different from mine. In my experience hydraulic brakes are a pain in the...um...nether regions. Bleeding them is a royal messy pain. They have seals that can degrade or become contaminated and need replacement and rebuild. The fluid needs to be replaced occasionally which means more messy bleeding If the hose is too long or too short, the procedure needed to change the length is laborious and tedious requiring another messy bleeding session as well.

Compare that to mechanicals. Need to length the cables, just cut the cable housing to the proper length and feed a new cable through. There is nothing that needs to be done to a mechanical disc after installation that needs to be done except change pads and, perhaps, an occasional cable adjustment for pad wear. Changing pads isn't any different for mechanical and hydraulic...except that you have to push the pistons back in the hydraulics which, depending on when you last had to bleed the stupid things, may require another bleeding session.

Perhaps the hardest thing to do on a mechanical brake is setting the proper pad distance which usually involves a bit of fiddling with a couple of set screws which are simple to deal with and, like the limit screws on a derailer, should really only need to be done once.

As for the "superior" modulation of hydraulic, I've had them. I never found them to be better "modulated" unless you use a very different different of "modulation" than is found in the dictionary. I found them to have 2 settings...off and on...with nothing in between. That's not "modulation". My daughter...independently of me...found much the same problem. They felt like they were going to throw you over the bars or not going to stop. Both of us thought they were more "digital", i.e. either 1 or 0, then something that is "modulated".


I wouldn't call the bleed kit, fittings and tools needed for hydraulic maintenance "small $$$" items. An Avid bleed kit costs about $50. Shortening...or lengthening... of a line doesn't look like it's that simple a procedure either.

And, as you may have gathered, I find bleeding brakes to be one of the more onerous of bicycle tasks. I'd rather clean oil soaked chains over bleeding brakes...and you are well aware how much I detest cleaning chains

jefnvk

I've taught myself to bleed car and motorcycle brakes. I can't imagine $100 to bleed bike brakes is anything other than folks holding that exact line of thought.

Hydraulics are simple. I'm in the "learn yourself" camp.

Cyclist0108

Shimano are far easier to deal with, bleed, and maintain than Avids (which are quite possibly the worst hydraulic brakes made). Mineral oil is non-toxic, whereas DOT fluid can be used to strip the finish off of your frame. Shimano brakes have the additional merit of working well, and the modulation is superb. Working with them is fairly easy. Working with Avids drove me to replace them for $300 with a Shimano XT setup.

I do go through pads and even rotors on my road bike fairly regularly, as I live in a hilly region and am borderline clinically paranoid.

cyccommute 

While it is simple to do what you are saying for any cable actuated brake, it's a far different enterprise to do it for hydraulic systems. I suspect that if cyber.snow has one housing that is too short, he probably has 2 that are too short and may have to change both anyway. But to swap one longer hose from the back to the front and to install a hose on the rear would require removing the hoses, putting new fittings on at least one end of one and new fittings on both ends of the other. Then you'll have to ensure that the hoses are filled and bleed both brakes. It's not a simple job.

Frankly, doing the job yourself is going to cost close enough to $100 to have a mechanic do it but, I suspect, that changing hoses and all that it entails will cost more than $100 and be really close to the $175 price tag for the mechanicals.

djb

I see this whole argument as coming down to the fact that mech. discs work very well, I've toured on rim brakes for over 25 years and they work well enough--now having used mech BB7s in very hilly conditions over a long period of time, I can say that they work better--ie, make my life easier.

Going mech just means that there is one less thing not to have to think about in terms of bike damage, line damage, and dealing with any fluid issues. Sure, I know the likelihood is pretty small, but given how well mech. systems work, to me its not really an issue simply because my "old" technology BB7 mtn work so well as is, and as mentioned, newer systems with two moving pistons will have even more even pad wear life and easier setup--but BB7s still are a very effective system and just plain work.

again, all my opinion is more for travelling in far away places, and given the face that a gazillion mtn bikes have shimano hydro systems on them and are crashed regularly, I'm sure they are reasonably robust and parts are out there everywhere, thats the advantage of common shimano parts.
Personally, I'm comfortable with a mech setup from a more simple setup aspect, especially given how well it works, and my recent trip was a good workout for my old BB7s.

2 Piece

Actually, it is a pretty simple job. Is it different than replacing cables? Yes, but that does not make it a hard job by any means.