Charles Wahl

I ride a basic S-A AW 3-speed almost all the time, and like it a lot. To me, a signal advantage is that the middle "cruise" gear is the 1:1, unlike many of the other IGH models. I do use all 3 gears, but on the flats alternate between middle & high, mostly the former. Yes, the spread is pretty large, but I've just learned to deal with that by adjusting my cadence. One other advantage is that I'm not always shifting. I use a Simplex Retrofriction shifter on the downtube, just because I like its looks way better than the S-A trigger and it's absolutely the nicest shifter I've ever used. Middle gear is indicated by a couple simple Sharpie marks that I can see well enough, though I've gotten pretty good at getting the lever to the right place just by tactile memory.

If you need more gears than that, then there's always the 4-speed, or the S5, which was just a souped-up 4-speed. The latter are available occasionally on eBay, though usually in a 40-hole shell; but there's a little secret: the innards of an S5 or 4-speed will fit into an AW shell, and there are a lot of those around, even vintage ones in alloy. Mark Stonich at BikeSmith Design & Fabrication (bikesmithdesign.com) is definitely the guy for parts, or the hard-to-find left-side bellcrank for the S5. That model uses two shifters, the right for the typical 3-speed range, and the left to engage the mechanism that increases the spread, giving a lower low and a higher high.

Doug Fattic 

We have sued Shimano 7 speed IGHs on our charity bicycles in Ukraine for years with few problems. They have - like many IGHs- larger than usual spoke holes. To prevent spoke breakage, we used 13/14 gauge spokes. That extra width at the bend fills the spoke hole better and provides extra strength. Most of you know but just in case you didn't that thinner 14 gauge spokes are commonly the "heavy" spoke. As an alternative to using thicker 13 gauge spokes one can use spoke washers to provide extra strength around the hub's spoke hole. Keep in mind that most rims have spoke nipple holes that only work with 14 gauge spokes. That means the spoke has to be single or double buttered or a special thinner nipple used that will allow a 13 gauge thread to fit into a 14 gauge nipple rim hole.

GamblerGORD53

So what service did you do over that time?? Mine was tight until I took the left cone apart. I'm pretty sure it was wearing the balls before that.
Only 900 miles so far. I goofed my first SA XL-FDD with 3 cross, but it still went 26,000 miles with no breaks. I finally changed it this winter.

Road Fan

Doug, I prefer my toast to be "double buttered!"

Road Fan

There's a lot of lit on-line describing classic and current SA hubs. One thing is that upgrading from the AW takes some thought, so look for tables of the gear ratios Sturmey provided. If you want better climbing, going to an FM or FW (the four-speeds) might not do it without trading off the high, which you like. If your key point is "more gears" there were several classic 4 and 5 speed designs as well as modern ones. If you need wider range you can be in for some serious gear phreaking. Adding a granny up front is my favorite idea, but on my Rudge I'm stumped attaching a chain tension arm with enough capacity, and don't want to add a claw to the dropout. Plus I'm not too much for hand-fabrication of parts, I don't have a machine shop.

tcs

That's not a flaw, that's a feature.

>>With any kind of gearing system, you trade off the size of the steps between gears against the overall range.<<

Back in the late 1960s thru the early 1980s, we rode "ten speed" derailleur gear bikes. We were told to not cross chain (large chainwheel to biggest cog, small chainwheel to littlest cog) on pain of death and with the chains we had then that was probably good advice. This left us with six well-spaced gears (which were progressed thru via double shifts!) with bigger jumps to lowest and highest ratios. Hey, it worked. We rode the wheels off those bikes.

This is very similar to the gear pattern of the Sturmey-Archer XRF8: six closely spaced intermediate gears additionally with a bombing downhill and a grunting uphill ratio.

tiger1964 

Finding a place to comprehensively compare IGH's is getting interesting. First off, I need to eliminate coaster brake, disc brake and drum brake versions. Moreover, I certain do not want a black hub. Suddenly the choices become much fewer!

Sounds very interesting but I understand a frame has to be made to accommodate a belt, as there is no "master link" in a belt, no? And they are, ahem, aesthetically challenging I'd think on a classic bike, unless one uses a chain case (uh, belt case? )

I like that, presuming there's chainstay protection. Do these come with some/most IGH hub kits, or an aftermarket accessory?

That sounds like something I can readily live with - spend most times in intermediate gears, and two "get me out of trouble" ratios at the extremes.

Salubrious

Rohloffs are available in black, silver and red. I think I mentioned that you have to take your frame to a frame builder to modify it for use with a belt. But there are belts that don't require that, although not as common as the Gates belt, which if one is honest, is not all that common either. I carry a spare with me. The other tricky bit is the frame can't have much flex according to Gates, but if you use a snubber as I suggested earlier you can get around this problem as you don't have to run much belt tension.

The Shimano Alfine 8 speed is (or was) available in black and silver, the latter seems more common.

If you go with the venerable SA 3-speed AW hub, you could take your bike on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour. You need a 46 in front and a 22 in the rear to climb the Bay City Hill.
https://3speedtour.com/

Charles Wahl

Having made a plug for vintage S-A hubs, I should have pointed out a limitation they have: axle length compared to the spacing of most frames of the modern era. The AW and similar vintage hubs were intended for bikes having an OLD of 114 or so mm. Axles are available, but scarce, that are longer, but not much longer, like 6 mm. I have used such an axle replacement to make things work on a frame with 120 mm OLD. A 70s road frame might work fine, but the 126 or 130 mm frames would have to be respaced.

Newer S-A hubs are intended for larger spacings, but you do have to be careful about this, just like with any rear hub.

GamblerGORD53

I guess the biggest reason I got the SA 5w instead of the 8, is the need for a silly 30 or 32T front. Not compatible with Rohloff14 or anything else.
So in looking at the Sheldon GI chart again, it's hard to find a poor combo. Either 30/ 32T with 22/ 23/ 24/ 25T will get you nice low/ medium and high pace.
30/ 23T would suit me fine. Some guys say they are a great hub, though for sure weaker parts than a R14.
My 1973 CCM fitted the regular 3 speed just fine at 118 mm.

tcs

It's an aftermarket accessory.

Shifters for most IGHs have a cable adjuster for fine-tuning the alignment marks with the shifter position. Sturmey 3-speeds famously come with cable adjusters on the pull chain back by the hub. Since I used an 'adjusterless' aftermarket Jtek bar-end shifter for my XRF8, I needed a cable adjuster somewhere in the cable/housing run, and placing it back by the hub made it very convenient.

BTW, aftermarket Sturmeys typically come in a box with the shifter, cable&housing, nuts, washers, non-turn washers, cable anchor and cog. It's a complete kit! ...except the included cog might not have the number of teeth you want, and the shifter might not be the type you want.



With aftermarket Shimano IGHs, you usually have to buy all these things separately. No big deal, just something to be aware of.

Sluggo

My spoke breakage was at the rim end of the spokes, so hub-hole size was not the problem. Going to 2x solved the issue, but again, there are lots of 3x wheels with large hubs that don't seem to break spokes. I don't know why I had this problem when a zillion other people don't (and I broke lots of spokes)(700c, BTW). On the other hand, Rohloff requires 2x, but it they are even larger diameter flanges.

Some years back, I used washers on the spoke holes of an Austrian SA 3-spd copy to stop spoke breakage at the hub, so I can attest that that technique works. Edit: after further pondering, I remembered that in this particular case the problem was that the relatively thin steel flanges were a poor match for the curve of the spoke elbow (designed for thicker aluminum flanges) and the washer was needed to better match the elbow radius.

I adjusted the bearings when it was new and checked them regularly. I have seen reports of others having the same issue, blaming rainy Seattle weather (it's much rainier here), but I can't find it now. I could not see any contamination of the lubricant, though IIRC it was dark gray groil, so not necessarily easy to tell.

I would guess that the bearing/driver problem has been corrected in subsequent redesigns of the hub. And I did like the riding experience.

tcs

If you go for a vintage FM or FW four-speed, my recommendation is to make your life easier and find one complete with an indicator and shifter. Odd, but the shifters seem to be rarer than the hubs. Go figure.

tcs

I understand they'll accept 4- and 5-speed hubs, so long as you aren't arrogant about your hill-climbing ability when employing them.

Velo Mule

I am impressed with what SunRace has done with the Sturmey Archer line. I am leaning that way for my next internally geared hub.

nlerner

I seem to have several 3/4-speed shifters, but none have a strong enough spring to hold that lowest gear. Definitely a design flaw. Reminds me that I have an ongoing spring replacement project. Need to attend to that this summer.

Salubrious

Be careful not to set the cable tension too high. On the 4 speeds I set the cable tension in low gear, as loose as it can be while still pulling the toggle chain as far as it will go. I've yet to run into a shifter that would not hold low gear.

montclairbobbyb 

I too am impressed with the breadth of their offerings, particularly their variety of drum hubs... As for the (Sunrace) SA 8-speed IG hubs, I'm much less impressed, and have had internal failures on 2 of them. Sunrace, to their credit shipped new internals on the first failure... on the second failure (different hub), I gave up. Personally I prefer the Shimano Nexus (red band) and Alfine 8 spd hubs; for the money I think they're pretty robust and reliable.


I also have had a soft spot for the Spectro/SRAM P5 and S7 speed IG hubs (I know, I must be a glutton for punishment... In fact I still have a P5 in the box that I keep threatening to build up). Anyone else like these? Admittedly I find the click box setup a royal PITA, but really do like the feel of the shifting (reminds me of the older SA hubs).


In the final analysis I still love my derailleur setups, but there's just something intriguing and irresistible about IG hubs!

Salubrious

I had a Sram 7-speed and really enjoyed it- until the bike was stolen.
The 8-speed Shimano is a pretty good hub. It should be regreased annually if you subject it to extreme environments.

tiger1964 

[QUOTE=montclairbobbyb;22539651. As for the (Sunrace) SA 8-speed IG hubs, I'm much less impressed, and have had internal failures on 2 of them. Sunrace, to their credit shipped new internals on the first failure... on the second failure (different hub), I gave up. [/QUOTE]

Interesting data point. So far, seems like a wide range of experiences by C&V/BF'ers on the various IGH hubs. Hopefully I can make an intelligent selection and when I proceed perhaps whatever my first choice might actually be available!

rudypyatt

If you’re not in an extremely hilly area, the Sturmey-Archer SRF3 could be all you need. I have one on a Linus Gaston 3 (downtube shifter) and converted a Windsor TimeLine to the same hub (trigger shifter on the drop). Both are great for bopping around New York City.