AssosMan

Decided to switch out my old fork for a new one earlier today. The catch is that I'm switching from a threaded fork to a threadless one. For you non-mechanically bike inclinded people, this also means replacing the existing headset with a threadless one..... This didn't seem like a problem as I have built up several bikes from random tools from the father's shed except for the fact that I now live at the University and tool access is somewhat limited.....

So I decide that I was going to borrow some tools from the local LBSes. All I needed was a headset cup remover (basically a metal pipe that costs ~$10) to get rid of the old headset. I figured that I'll go with Chris King since my old headset was pretty trashed and felt obligated to spend a little more since I'll be borrowing some tools. Shouldn't be a problem right?

I call around the Seattle area to about 7 LBSes looking for a 1" CK threadless headset and discover that none of them would lend out their tools to me! WTF!!!??? I'm spending $130+ on a headset and they won't let me borrow an aluminum pipe for 30 seconds!??

I thought the local shops would nice. Today, the employees at PerformanceBike let me use their tools and space (heck, they even let a guy use a bike repair stand just to change a tire). I just went into a corner and worked.....No questions asked..... And I didn't even buy ANYTHING since they were out of stock on the CK headsets.

Is it just me or are the LBSes just mean? Is borrowing tools (or a tool in this case) reasonable?!

Looks like I'll be ordering from PBike. I really just wanted to get this project over with ASAP and was willing to pay full retail because of my time constraints, but I'm definately willing to wait a couple of days while my bike is out of comission for the week for PBike to restock the headsets since they are the only ones that allowed me to borrow their tools. Too bad LBSes... You just lost a customer over $10.

BananaTugger

Pay for it, then you can use it.

Would you want someone walking into your kitchen, buying some bananas and ice from you, and then stuffing them into your blender and walking out with a smoothie?

MONGO!

There's a bike co-op here that will let you use tools to work on your bike.

I wouldn't dream of asking a LBS to lend me a tool or workspace.

JMT114

I used to work in the automotive service industry. Two dealers, and one independent shop. We never lent out tools either. If you need it, buy it, or pay someone who has it to do it for you.

uke

I've never formed one of those strange attachments to bike shops so many here seem to have. A bike shop is nothing more than a store that sells bikes to me. I bought my bike from a shop, but I didn't buy any of my accessories from there; those were all purchased online.

I did return to the shop when a pedal on the bike broke. They replaced it for free, which was nice. Now I'm much more likely to recommend them in the future to someone looking for a bike. However, I'm not going to go there and buy stuff I could find online and install myself. I guess what I'm saying is that you shouldn't look for some special "relationship" with a bike shop that you wouldn't look for elsewhere. Get what you need and get on with your life.

AssosMan

Com'on that wasn't fare.... If the blender didn't get dirty or messed up (like in the case of a metal pipe), then yes, I would let them use it.

I mean, the LBSes don't seem to have a problem letting anyone friggen test ride (borrow) a $2000+ bike. Why do they have a problem letting me borrow a $10 tool? I'll be using for 30 seconds (unlike a 1 hr. test ride) and I'll be sitting right in front of them (unlike a test ride) and I would have actually bought something from them (unlike a test ride). What's the fault in my logic here?

mattm

yeah my LBS has a no-loan policy - unless you're in with them.

it makes sense tho - in my neighborhood, junkies would take advantage of a loan policy and steal tools to pawn.

JMT114

You are not potentially going to buy the tool!

Suzie Green

The reality check is that the shop might be wary of anyone using the premises or tools, from a legal and safety standpoint. Suppose the tool slips, you gash your hand to the tune of 20 stitches. Sure, you might say "I'll suck it up and take care of it myself" but the shop manager might be paranoid that you're going to cause an increase in his liability insurance rates. It's the reason why most auto repair places don't let you wander around in the shop as well.

PartyPat

they don't lend them out because they can't trust you to use it properly and not break it/ steal it/misuse it.
most shops I know in most industries won't lend out tools, I am V particular about lending my own tools for those reasons above

Raven87

An LBS is not your relative. The owner has money invested in those tools and while YOU may well bring it back, others would not.

Perhaps a 'rental' policy or some sort of deposit would be a good business practice but I've got to side with the shops on this one. If it only costs $10 - why not buy one yourself? Given what we spend on our bikes and since you do build bikes occasionally, it would be a good investment.

Why expect another guy to just let you borrow his stuff? I sure would not unless you lived next door and I knew you well.

And even with that... I'm just sayin'...

fourteenbucks

I would never ask my LBS to borrow their stuff. They're pretty rude even about me going behind the counter to the repair area to look at my bike on the repair stand.

urbanknight

As a former LBS employee, I can tell you that it has a lot to do with liability and a little to do with risk. Most shops' insurance carriers don't allow them to have customers in the work area, because it's a liability if you get hurt. Same thing if you hurt yourself with their shop tools.

As for the risk, shops rely on their tools to make money on service. If you borrow and lose, steal, or break their tool, they're screwed. Not just the lost service fees, but the upset customers which means losing the important repeat business.

Better than the blender example, do you go into a car mechanic's shop and ask to borrow his tools? The dealership ones let people "borrow" the $40,000 cars for a test ride.

mazdaspeed

I bought a tool from the shop here and asked the guy if he would show me how to tighten the axle [with the tool I just bought] and he said no he'd charge me if he did it (it would have taken 5 seconds). These are the same *****holes that charge $40 for a crank install. Fortunately they are helpful at explaining things but BOY are they STINGY. I only go there when I need a tool in a bind or need to try something on before buying it (in which case I buy from them).

MONGO!

It's a bike store, not a lending library.

Get on good terms with a LBS, by giving them work and being friendly, the 6 pack of beer or donuts will do wonders.

I'm on first name terms with guys at a couple of LBS and I still wouldn't ask that favor, if I need something done and I don't have the tool for it I pay them to do it.

I just got a headset installed on my wife's cross bike yesterday, cost $25 in labor.

operator

Lawl.

We don't lend out tools. If you aren't a jackass, we'll come out WITH the tool and loosen/cut/adjust whatever.

It's non-negotiable, just like labour prices. I cut and crimped on a cable end for a customer gratis, expecting nothing and he tipped me more than my time is worth. Guess who's going to get preferntial service the next time he comes in?

mazdaspeed

I've actually gone to a shop and asked to borrow a torque wrench and a socket for like 30 seconds to tighten some lug nuts and they let me no questions asked

BananaTugger

One of the more... Northern shops around here said they would charge me $75 to swap out a compact crank for a standard crank on a bike I was thinking of getting for the winter.

urban_assault

AssosMan....just curious, do you wear Assos clothing?

If you do, it seems strange that you would not go ahead and buy a headset cup remover (a $10 metal pipe, in your words) instead of complaining about not being able to borrow one.

Just sayin'

urbanknight

Well yeah, there are always the easy going ones that break rules. The ones that follow the rules are usually the victims of an unnecessary lawsuit.

mazdaspeed

That's just ridiculous. I had my last MTB in the shop so they could adjust the dish on the wheel (it had no cranks at the time) and I bought a set of cranks from them, which they charged me $40 to install to check the dish then just take off again (per my request). This is why I only go back if I absolutely HAVE to for my bike to be ridable.

AssosMan

All good replys..... I guess they are a business and in the end, it all comes down into money. Even though I understand where all of you guys are coming from, I'm still kinda angry at them. It means that they look at me as a bag of money, not as an actual person.

I didn't even know anyone at PerformanceBike and they kindly lent me several tools and even offered me a repair stand without any questions. Heck, none of the people even pressured me into buying anything and one even HELPED me and another cut my steer tube all for FREE (again, I didn't even get their names). All I'm saying is that this is the kind of treatment I expected from the LBSes based on this eariler experience..... Or is it just that PBike (a large non-local retail store) WAY overally friendly?

mazdaspeed

I think you're over thinking it.. you found a good shop which makes you more fortunate than 90% of us I'd say so just be thankful.

AssosMan

Yes, I do wear Assos clothing. Although I do mention the tool costing $10, it is something I probably won't use again. Plus you kind of missed the point; it is a matter if principle - not money.

BananaTugger

This shop is bad. Real bad.

They had a support tent with three mechanics and two pumps at the Tour de Cure in 2005.