SuperDaveFelt

I don't have an AR5 here to take apart and weigh. Is is possible for you to just take the wheels off and weigh them?

-SD

c_mack9

nope i dont have a scale. i figured yall had those types of specs on paper somewhere.

SuperDaveFelt

Yes, I have the weight of the hubs/spokes/nipples/rims, but with extrusions and forged tolerances you could see a +/-2% on the rim and spoke weights. If I told you the wheels here are 1682g with skewers and yours were 1704g I wouldn't want you to feel slighted. Similarly; if your wheels were 1650g, I wouldn't want you to think we forgot something during the build up.

I can confirm that the wheels on the 2011 AR5 are lighter than the wheels on the 2012 AR3.



-SD

gladiator13

Hey superdave, when are we going to see pics and specs for the rest of the 2012 AR lineup? I'm curious about this Ui2 bike as well as the rest of the AR lineup. Thanks!

Also, what's with the mid compact cranksets this year?

c_mack9

is 1682g just a random number they made up or is that what they are in the ballpark of? i dont want to spend $500 on a new wheels set that weighs 1500g if the stock ones are already that close. if they are like the bontrager ssr wheels that was on my last bike and weigh 2250g, i would like to know.

chendricks

I don't mean to be a weight weenie but could anyone explain the logic of the new 2012 AR4 weighing more (8.14kg) than the 2011 AR5 (8.06kg) and the 2011 AR4 (7.69kg)? The frames are the same I think and the AR4's Ultrega should be lighter than the AR5's 105 group, so the difference must be that the AR5's Felt AeroR3 wheels are lighter than the 2012 AR4's Shimano WH-RS30 wheels right? Why would Felt want the higher end AR4 with Ultrega to weigh more than the AR5 with 105? If the Felt AeroR3 wheels on the AR5 are lighter/better than the Shimano ones, why not put them on the AR4 too and have it come in at a lower overall weight? Are the Shimano wheels better in some other way, like aerodynamics, to warrant putting them on the AR4 and paying more money for a heavier bike than the AR5?

The weight of the 2012 AR5 (which also has the Felt AeroR3 wheels) is (a little mysteriously) not available on the Felt website. Could that be because it's lower than the 2012 AR4 bike directly above it in the upgrade path and it would confuse people (like me) to disclose it there?

c_mack9

notice their price tags, they gotta cut costs somewhere right? are the saddles the same as last year? the 2011s had pretty nice saddles. tires too, maybe they arent using the lightweight folding tires like they did last year?

creativepart

SD is the Demo truck going to be at 2nd Ave Sports in Durango in Sept?

chendricks

Yes, I noticed (and appreciated) the lower prices on the 2 new 2012 AR models that have been revealed so far. The AR4 gained a pound but lost $300. The 2012 AR5 is also $300 cheaper but its new weight is not listed on the Felt website like all the other models. One would assume that its weight has also gone up to keep the stair steps in the right order as you move up the line from AR5 to AR4 and on up but I don't see any significantly different components listed on the website for the 2012 AR5 compared to the 2011. Maybe some combination of saddle, brake levers or whatever will add up to a heavier weight for the 2012 AR5 but that's just me guessing.

I think the lower price points with a little more weight at the bottom of the line are a sensible tradeoff. I'm just trying to understand the lineup as I'm in the market for one of these and haven't yet decided which step I want to be on. I liked the 2011 AR4 with Ultrega and a sub 17lbs weight but now that it's gone up a pound (yeah, yeah, I know I probably couldn't tell the difference) I'd like to compare it to the 2012 AR3 and 2012 AR5 weights before deciding, but those are not yet published.

It's interesting that SD commented earlier in this thread that the 2012 AR3's wheels will be heavier than the 2011 AR5's wheels (the Felt AeroR3's that are also on the mystery weight 2012 AR5). This also seems to be the case with the AR4 wheels. Maybe Felt has decided that the weights simply don't need to go down at each model level and that people care more about the better component group that they're getting at each level. But isn't part of the point in upgrading to a better group like Ultrega over 105 to shed weight? I don't quite understand the logic of upgrading to Ultrega at the AR4 level vs 105 on the AR5, but then shipping the AR4 with heavier wheels that make the AR4 heavier than the AR5, if that's what's really happening in 2012.

SuperDave... if you happen to see this... are you able to shed any light on the question of the 2012 AR5 or 2012 AR3 weights so that I can understand how they compare to the 2012 AR4? Please help me with my bike spec OCD so I can get off the fence and order one of these things! I suppose I could just wait a couple weeks and it'll all be on your website right?

c_mack9

i think the saddle, wheels, tires, crank, and bars are all different on the 2012 AR5. maybe with the higher models having heavier wheelsets, they could either be a deeper aero wheel or maybe they are doing like cervelo does and putting crappy wheels on there expecting most people to change them out anyways. that could help keep the price tag down maybe.

McTufferton

I'm anticipating the 2012 AR3 to weigh in around 17.75 lbs. Assuming stem, handlebars and saddle remain the same, the only difference between the 2011 AR4 and the 2012 AR3 will be the Ultegra Di2 shifters, FD and RD. Same frame, wheels, crank and brakes.

SuperDaveFelt

I had a 2012 AR5 in our R&D center today, while it was here for some cassette size checking (14-25t, 12-30t, 11-32t etc...) we threw the wheels on the scale. With the tires, tubes, valve caps, rim strips, rims, hubs, stock cassette, spokes, nipples, & decals they weighed 2729g. Without the cassette the wheels were 2460g. I wasn't able to strip them down to the bare wheelset this time.

I would have weighed the complete bike so we can update the website but it was a 58cm and we publish the 56cm frame weights. We'll finish collecting the weights as soon as possible and publish them for all road models.

Regards,
-SD

SuperDaveFelt

right.

VA_Esquire

woah. Felt is doing custom painting like trek's project one.

chendricks

All the new Felt AR models appeared yesterday on the Felt website. Weights are not posted yet.

Why do you think the AR5 is the same price as the AR frame kit? It's the exact same frame in both cases isn't it? If you just want the frame, shouldn't you buy the AR5 and get a bunch of "free" parts to sell off or use for the something else right, or is there something I'm misunderstanding?

I'm trying to decide if I want an AR5 Shimano 105 for $2500 or a Cervelo S2 Rival for $2800. Any opinions? I know the Shimano vs SRAM thing is a personal preference and there's always the question of which fits better (I'll test ride both), but what would the other arguments be for one versus the other?