mstateglfr 

https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/p...edster-50-bike

Inflation is up, shipping costs are up, demand is up, etc etc etc.
But still- $1100 for 2x7 Tourney?

Call the Fonz, a shark needs to be jumped.

shelbyfv

Discouraging.

Maelochs

Here's a little secret about capitalism .... if nobody buys it at that price, the price will go down.

The reason people have to pay astronomical prices for bikes and bike parts nowadays? Because manufacturers realized that there was untapped profit in the market, and started raising prices, and raised prices more, and kept raising prices ... and people kept paying them.

A top of the line bike costs four times what it did ten years ago .... but every aspect of the design and construction is probably cheaper. Is that $18,000 bike Really four times better than the $4500 bike from ten years ago? Not in my opinion. But people are paying that much.

Is an entry-level frame with 2-kg wheels and rock-hard tires and a freaking Tourney drive train worth $1100, when three years ago you could buy if for like, $400? Sadly, it is if people are willing to pay that much.

It is our own fault if we are pricing ourselves out of the bike market. We all could have ridden our existing bikes another few seasons, and manufacturers would have realized that they had hit the top of what riders were willing to pay. But instead, there were enough people who just Had to have this years model of last year's model which, other than paint, was identical to the prior year's model, except each was 30 percent more expensive.

Now we are looking at paying $1100 for a bike we wouldn't even have considered buying three years ago. We got ourselves here.

freeranger

It is sad what components are used on "upper level" bikes these days. Used to be that you'd only find those lower level components on big box store bikes. My road bike-LeMond Reno '06 was not their top of the line model. Still, it was stock with Tiagra brake/shift levers and front der. Rear der. is 105. Just for fun one day, looked up a similarly equipped current bike price and looked up the inflation rate. Even adjusted for inflation, the price of the current, similarly equipped bike, was much more expensive. The Reno is still in great shape and serves me well, probably last me until I can no longer ride. Sure hope so, as it would be expensive to replace with a similarly equipped bike these days.
EDIT: have any tried, with any success, in haggling with the LBS to upgrade components, in order to make the sale? I'm guessing not, with the demand for, and shortage of, available bikes currently.

SoSmellyAir

This is a sad state of affairs indeed.

mstateglfr 

Yes, I'm aware that the cost of some goods can drop if demand is not high enough.
It's still surprising to see Tourney at $1100 since that's what Trek is pricing its Claris Disc Domane at, for example. And Giant's Contend Claris Disc is $1000.

As for us getting us here, that may play a part but it's hardly the entire story. There are clearly outside influences which have affected cost.

delbiker1 

The worse part is that it is probably going to get considerably worse. I am not counting on prices to go down on anything, and would be a bit surprised if it stabilizes anytime soon. I have bought some items I do not need right now, but know I will in the future, because of the inflation situation combined with shortages and a price point that will likely not be seen again. I am not hording, but I am at a point now that I have to tell me self not to buy more just because of a good price. Fortunately for me, that does not include a new bike.

Darth Lefty 

Here's a little secret about capitalism - we don't have it. When have you ever seen prices on bikes go down? Only when a new vendor has found a way around the existing system. Our last outlet for capitalism was the gray market from Britain and the EU, that was blocked a couple years ago.

SoSmellyAir

I tell my wife exactly this when she asks me why there is yet another package from a bike shop on the front porch. At the mileage I am riding, I have to admit I am skirting next to hoarding.

fishboat

I don't pay much attention to new bikes..so forgive me here, but in 2021..does any manufacturer actually think a 7 speed back end will have any market? (particularly at this price point?) Hard to imagine.

All that being said..I have 3x7 Tourney shifters on a drop bar conversion MTB-now touring bike. Completely compatible with front and rear XT derailleurs. No complaints..but they were only a $64 investment.

Maelochs

No we don't have pure capitalism .... but we have a worse system .... and pure capitalism doesn't work anyway. it is a great theory but people can game it in real life.

However .... while I don't expect to see prices go down, they might not go Up so quickly if people stop buying the "Latest, greatest."

Also .... businesses are in business to make money. if they do not, they Will adjust. For Instance .... if Scott find its warehouses full of last year's seven-speed bikes next year .... it will discount them and never spec them again.

Atlas Shrugged

Perhaps a state run and regulated bicycle industry would be the way to go. We could all be riding Flying Pigeon bicycles and wouldn’t know any better. It would only take being placed 5 year waiting list (unless you are a Party official or connected in some way) and 3 month’s salary.

Work hard, choose what you would like, buy it and enjoy.

Random11

Yes, bikes were much better before capitalism ruined them. So was everything else. I wish I could go back and have the same standard of living people had in 1700, and be able to ride the same bikes those people had.

tyrion

But it's got integrated cables.

Atlas Shrugged

Says the guy who proudly lists 7 bikes in his profile.

tyrion

$1000 gets you 105 shifting and a carbon fork at bikesdirect.

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ntnoir_xii.htm

SoSmellyAir

Another reference to the Flying Pigeon, the original black on black bike for the masses, and the reason why I do not want a black bike.

Maelochs

Two are C&V bikes which cost me $175 for both. I bought them a few years after they were manufactured, from people who had bought them and didn't want them. I bought a lot of unwanted bikes when I was a cyclo-commuter because I found I needed at Least two ready-to-go bikes .... not many bosses are going to let it slide if you don't show up because of "bike trouble," and definitely not to days in a row.

Two, the Workswells, are self-built Chinabombs. Closest I have to "Latest and Greatest"---in fact both were slightly outmoded when I built them, but parts used to be really cheap (particularly overseas---remember when you could get Ultegra and 105 for $450 or $350?) They are my really Nice Bikes .... $250 wheelsets, what an extravagance!!,

One I was given as a gesture of thanks after a charity ride where I donated a huge amount of money and time .... it doesn't fit at all (it is a 52 and I ride at least a 56) but I have it set up on a trainer---never ridden it on the trainer. I'd gladly sell it if it wasn't a pastiche of parts which might be hard to move .....

I got the 2007 Cannondale (latest and greatest? It is a freaking 14-year-old bike) was also a garage queen. The guy who sold it to me, for nearly a pittance, was more interested in making it pretty than riding it, and I Really wanted to ride off-road. It has 26-inch wheels (latest and greatest--until 10 years ago) and a 24-speed drivetrain, but it is a Great MTB---it is a good enough bike to make up for my inabilities as a rider.

The only "latest" bike I own is the 2017 Fuji---four years old, that counts as :"latest," doesn't it---except that it is the last year of the old frame style. I got it in 2018 when the Later, greater version came out---got it for a Huge discount. i tis now the bike ride most simply because I can haul as much gear as I need. So yeah .... it is my "Latest" and it is a great bike.

And no, we don't have unfettered,. unregulated capitalism. if you think we do, fine. I don't argue with people who think the Earth is flat either.

I don't Want unfettered capitalism .... it is too easy for people to cheat.

But as far as the current system goes----did you perhaps forget that in 2008 and bunch of unethical bankers and investors and financial "specialists" crashed the entire global economy with their unremitting fraud---and all of them got rich from it?

If you think that was good, you must be one of the crooks.

Maelochs

BikesDirect raised their prices on some of their wares very recently. I suggested some BD bikes to a poster a couple weeks ago, and went back last night to suggest some for a different poster ... their hybrids and gravel bikes were Significantly more expensive two weeks later.

Also, almost all of their stuff seems to be out of stock.

Even so .... I have many times considered buying a Bike island (BD scratch and dent site) bike just to strip it for parts. I just hate having unused parts sitting around, and I would feel bad putting a whole frame out on the sidewalk.

CliffordK

I had a Specialized Tricross a couple of years ago. Not a bad bike, but I think I was outfitted with Claris cranks, and Tourney or Claris shifters. I don't remeber what derailleurs were on it.

znomit

It's going to be so embarrassing when these BSOs pass us on the MUP.

pgjackson

I am so glad I am not in the market for a new bike. My 10 year old bike runs perfectly and I love it. I don't think any new bike under $5,000 would be an upgrade. I was away from cycling for about 8 years and just got back into it a few months ago. The market has definitely changed. 105s used to be pretty standard on any $1000 bike and Sora was only on entry level bikes. I made a comment earlier on a different thread that I wouldn't even consider a $1000 bike that didn't at least have 105 level components. That was the deal back in 2011...now you aren't even getting close to 105s in that price range. And it's not due to inflation. Maybe new Soras (and Tourneys/Claris) are on par with 105s or SRAM Rival from 10 years ago. But if I was in the market for a bike I would be looking at the used market. Yeah, there is more risk, but I think you can get a much better value there than spending top dollar to get low-level components on something new.

pgjackson

Y'all know most people think the idea of a $1000+ bicycle is absurd. Here, we don't bat an eye at a $5,000+ bike and consider it a tremendous value with the right components. The problem is not manufacturers putting slightly less respectable components on a $1000 bike than they used to....the problem is that there is a huge market for $1000+ bikes. First world problems. And if I'm Brand X bicycle maker, my goal is to make my bikes as inexpensively as possible and sell them for as much as I possibly can. From a manufacturing perspective, I wonder what the real differences are between Sora, Claris, Tourney, 105....I have a feeling they are are pretty similar in quality and manufacturing cost.

Maelochs

I assume that the more plastic, the cheaper to make because it is easier to work plastic. CF takes more and metal also. The higher range bits need to have tighter clearances or they will feel cheap and raise complaints. The cheaper stuff, it doesn't matter because the parts flex enough to feel cheap regardless. Also the lighter parts need to be better designed and manufactured to retain their function under load---if a piece is so light it flexes under load and doesn't work customers might not feel they were getting good value ....

You nee3d better quality control--not just checking parts post-production, but maintaining tight tolerances all through the production run. Where a machine might be set up with looser tolerances and allowed to run a milling tool that is a little worn (the specs allow for the imprecision eventually caused by the duller tool) the good stuff needs to be to spec all the time, so tools need to be swapped out more often, and milling machine, or stampers or whatever, need to be checked more often.

Is there a huge difference in material cost and production cost? Probably not huge, but certainly a difference. And when pricing out enough components to build a huge number of bikes, those differences definitely add up.

Also, in order to give a good price on the cheap stuff (to stay competitive in the end of the market where customers can't afford the good stuff) the manufacturers charge a premium on the good stuff .... the profit margin is probably significant amount bigger on Ultegra than Claris---because it can be (luxury tax) and because the manufacturer can make money across the whole range of a line of bikes,. instead of trying to make the necessary profit amount off of each bike regardless of overall cost. The high-end bikes help finance the loss-leader cheapies.

The goal is Not to make the bikes as cheap as possible. The goal is to make the bike every bit as good as it needs to be, and then reach that standard as cheaply as possible. That's why some bikes have CF frames and some high-tensile steel, some have no-name knock-off everything and some have high-end specialty parts. The bike has to meet the quality and performance level for the market at which it is aimed. Try to sell loss-leader Hondas as upscale Acuras, and then wonder why people are buying Lexus.

So yes, in a way ..... but there are limits to how cheaply you can provide the necessary quality, and limits to how little quality you can provide and still maintain your brand.

The problem here isn't that there are $1000 bikes. The problem here, IMO, is that a respected brand, Scott, has opted to use very insufficient and outmoded tech on a $1000 bike.

This is sort of like when one of the major MTB manufacturers (I forget which one but lots of folks here will remember) decided to market a line of Walmart/big-box bikes, Using The Same Name Brand----Mongoose, that is who it was.

What happened is that the Mongoose brand lost all prestige, even though they were still producing the same upper-end models .... because the name was soiled by the throwaway Walmart trash they started selling.

Scott might regret trying to eke these few more pennies out of the entry-level market.

Think about it .... if for about or really close to the same money I could by a Scott with decades-outmoded ultra-low-end 7-speed running gear .... or I could get a different brand with Claris, running approximately the same quality levels as ten-year-old 105--or last-gen Sora. I would not buy the Scott, and I would never consider buying a Scott when I decided to upgrade, ever again---because those cheap products of out-of-wedlock sex at Scott tried to pawn off 7-speed crap on my instead of offering Claris.

SoSmellyAir

Your bike acquisition history is interesting and I wish I could buy good, well-kept bikes that others no longer ride for cheap; bikes are meant to be ridden. I don't think any of us should have to justify owning several bikes.