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Phil Wood hub bearing removal

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Phil Wood hub bearing removal

Old 12-15-18, 10:39 AM
  #1  
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Phil Wood hub bearing removal

How do you remove 1st and 2nd generation Phil hub bearings? I've searched the net and about the only helpful thing I've found is the bearing/axle pushes out in only one direction(no indication of which way or how to determine it). I've previously removed the outer shield to clean the exposed bearing/added new grease but I'd like to know how to remove the bearings and not damage the shell. And no I don't want to send it to Phil to do it, just want to know if anyone knows the trick for removal. Pics
below. thanks, Brian


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Old 12-15-18, 10:49 AM
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Get over your resistance..

Mail it to them in San Jose Cal , and they do it for you.. & mail it back..

because you asked, I don't expect you you have an arbor press and can make special jigs , like machine shops do, to do the job..

In the 80' s I bought a freewheel hubshell, same style , sent it to them it came back with the axle assembly , I built into the touring wheel I used for 10 years..


the axle assembly is 3 parts + the bearings so then you have to separate the end caps as well ..






.....




...

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-15-18 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 12-15-18, 12:17 PM
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The tool kit for the early hubs consisted of some large hollow spacers and a QR skewer. I've never had to do it myself, and only half watched someone else do it one time.

For the rear hub anyway I think the large spacer/end cap went over the FW threading, and a QR was put through the whole assembly. As you tightened the QR it pushed/pulled the whole assembly through to the drive side. I do not recall if this was done with the end caps in place, or if they even come off like the later hubs.

For some reason I think the models that come apart like that actually have two different sized bearings, maybe larger on the driveside? That could also be completely wrong. No idea about the front hub.
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Old 12-15-18, 04:28 PM
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generally a hole that catches the edge of the hub shell but lets the bearing pass through is what you would push against..
in the mid 80's, I bought a bare hubshell of that type (A bike shop Garage sale) it is a steel tube , with the alloy spoke flanges added..

sent i to Phil & Co,came back with the axle assembly , in about a week.. Quick turnaround..


there was a kit , a cap to keep a skewer supported 2 prong Freewheel removal tool from slipping out of the notches in the freewheel
and as you unscrewd the freewheel , not press the bearings partially out of the hubshell, in the process..

that may be what the above post was thinking of..

I used Shimano splined freewheels , so never needed that. as the splines did not strip out the freewheel notch or damage the remover





...

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-15-18 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 12-17-18, 11:17 AM
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Wow, hard to believe that no one has info on bearing removal on these hubs, that includes searching the web, no info that I can find. Although I have no immediate need to replace them this really makes me curious how it can be done by the home mechanic. Any info on the process will be greatly appreciated, including any pics/description of tooling that Phil uses to do it.

thanks, Brian
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Old 12-17-18, 12:46 PM
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With a Machine shop I could replicate the tooling they use for maybe several hundred dollars of shop time..

But I don't own a home machine shop , my father did, but it was all sold in his estate sale (1920 - 2000)
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Old 12-18-18, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
With a Machine shop I could replicate the tooling they use for maybe several hundred dollars of shop time..
By no means am I a machinist but I am a hobby machinist with decent skills, want to show me sketch of the tooling needed? Pic is of the metal machine part of my little shop/garage.

regards, Brian
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Last edited by calstar; 12-18-18 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 12-18-18, 03:47 PM
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hole just a bit bigger than the bearing OD on the bottom and push down so the bearing goes into that hole .. from the top side

you can make an arbor press with heavy hot rolled steel channel Iron, and a hydraulic car jack a steel base plate,
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Old 12-18-18, 05:40 PM
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Found a picture of the tool kit, pretty much what I remember. I think the picture includes the tools for bottom brackets as well.
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Old 12-19-18, 10:07 AM
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[QUOTE=fietsbob;20710211]
you can make an arbor press with heavy hot rolled steel channel Iron, and a hydraulic car jack a steel base plate,[/QUOTE

I have an arbor press, I'll try this after xmas. Wesmamyke thanks for the pic.

Happy holidays, Brian
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Old 12-19-18, 10:34 AM
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As I said.... shell is a tube , the center piece between the bearings has shoulders ..it extends thru the bearings and the end caps go on the ends...of it

(As I recall)

Newer field serviceable design is easier to drop in bearings


( I opted for Bullseye for my next freewteel touring wheelset build)
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Old 12-21-18, 08:00 PM
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Probably was overthinking this process but wanted to cut risk of trashing the hub. Hearing that the end caps stay on I used a 1 ton Dake arbor press, pressed the end cap, whole unit pressed into the shell, lined up the bearing in the shell to exit the side and used a brass drift to drift it out. You can see the rust/corrosion on one end of the shell, it took some effort to pop it loose but otherwise all went smoothly.
Both bearings and the shell where they press in are the same size. I've read where the shell is tapered inside and the bearings will only exit one end but that's not the case with these particular hubs. Next is getting the bearings/end caps off but its looking like another press fit, wont do that till after the holidays, input appreciated for this stage, probably some combo of heat and puller.

Pics below

​​​​​​



​​​​​​
the red grease is from loading the bearings a few months ago(before I decided to change rims) by removing the seals, it did penetrate through the bearing which is good to know

​​​​​​
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Last edited by calstar; 12-21-18 at 08:07 PM.
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Old 12-22-18, 02:10 PM
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Current Machined single piece Aluminum hub shells would be perhaps as you described..
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Old 05-21-22, 03:39 PM
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Hi, Did you get the bearings off the axle? Any pics.
I have the same hubs and want to do this.
Thanks
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Old 05-30-22, 01:41 PM
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(new to the list and not working with the interface well! This may be a duplicate post, sorry)

I just pulled my 1st gen PH rear hub apart for a rebuild. Without access to a press or pullers, I made up a home-built puller to remove the left side endcap and then just tapped out the right side endcap with a rod through the inside. I should have used a brass rod but I was too lazy to look for my brass so I used a long bolt and a gentle hammer.

This sequence of disassembly leaves the bearings in place in the shell. If you've removed the axle and bearings as a unit, the homebuilt puller can be used to pull the left cap off the bearing giving you access to the inside of the right cap which can then be tapped out of the bearing. Of course, support the inner race of the bearing if you care about preserving the races and balls.

The puller is about the ugliest piece of tooling there is. It works quite well. It's free to anyone who wants; I'll make another one in 2042 when the new bearings fail.
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Old 06-06-22, 10:29 AM
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Thanks for the post. Any chance you could post a pic of the puller you made? Or just email me the pic?
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Old 06-06-22, 11:03 PM
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Phil Wood puller

Hi VonCarlos,


I'm such a newbie I can't see private messages or post pictures. I can send the puller to you if you can get me an address.


The puller consists of a two large steel washers and a pair of v-blocks. The washers are large enough to fit over the endcaps and one of them has 4 holes drilled and tapped for M5x0.70 machine screws. The screws then push against the other washer forming a separator plates. The washers are placed over the endcaps, the v-blocks are clamped to the endcap above the washers and then driving the machine screws in pulls the endcap off quite easily. Luckily the left endcap has an enlarged shoulder for the dropouts to bear against and the v-blocks just bear against the shoulder rather than relying on friction.


Took me FOREVER to build the damn puller, but it's done and you can have it. I don't even need postage money.


I'm sure the forum admin filters will catch this but I'm ajh.idaho and my server is the one provided by the big search engine company.

(Nice fleet of bikes, btw! my Masi is a 75, the Raleigh International about 82, an 80s Holdsworth Special, the Raleigh Track bike a 73, plus a few others of less historical note but all wonderful rides)

Last edited by ajh.me; 06-06-22 at 11:07 PM. Reason: update
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Old 06-12-22, 03:41 PM
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Phil Wood front hub (1st? gen) axle dimensions

Hi,
Does anybody have a picture of a front axle? I believe that during the disassembly process I've managed to push the stub axles too deep into the spacer and I'd like an idea of how far out they should be. At the moment, the stub only has a couple mm clear of the inner race, nowhere near enough to support the endcaps. I'm planning on pulling them out so that there's 4-6mm for the endcap to fit on, but I concerned that that might be too much, possibly making it impossible to remove the endcap at the next disassembly.

thx
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Old 06-13-22, 10:52 AM
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Phil Wood front hub

I have a few pics of my front hub and some I got off the web. Not sure what version the web pics are.
The first 3 are my hub.
I'm not sure if I just press the whole axle/bearing assemble clean through the hub. (?)






Last edited by VonCarlos; 06-13-22 at 11:03 AM. Reason: Pic titles
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Old 06-14-22, 12:38 AM
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Hi VonC,

Thanks for the research. Your front seems to be the same as mine, at least on the outside. The web pictures show a different axle design. The axle design on mine, and presumably yours too, has a five piece axle: endcap, stub axle, spacer, stub axle, endcap. If you're not careful (or stupid, like me), you can push the stub axles too far into the spacer and have to pull it out, as I describe below.

Finished my reassembly last night. The front was troublesome, but I had time. The rear was trivial.

On the rear, the bearings were easily pushed onto the endcap/stub axle, mostly by hand but I finished them with a socket over the axle in the vise. The axle/bearing assemblies were pressed onto the spacer using a large C-clamp since my vise wasn't big enough. Then the whole thing is inserted into the right side and pressed home. I used various sockets and large washers to apply pressure to the outer races when pressing into the hub. With nothing big enough to reach around the whole wheel, I just put it on the floor and used a hammer above. It doesn't take much force, just tap the socket square.

The front was a pain. I managed to push the stub axles into the spacer during disassembly so that only 9-10 mm were exposed, leaving only 1-2mm for the endcap after the 8mm bearing. Tapping it out was impossible so I fabricated a puller by filing flats on 4mm (or 10-32) flange nut so it would fit inside the axle and then flip to catch the inside of the stub axle. I also drilled out a steel washer to fit EXACTLY over the stub to bear against the spacer. I intended to thread a screw through washers, sockets, etc into the nut to pull the stub out of the spacer, but it was too damn tight. I ended up using a fair bit of propane before tapping against the flange nut with a drift to get 15mm or so of stub axle out of the spacer on each side

I didn't want to risk pushing the stubs back into the spacer when press fitting the bearing so I left the flange nut inside and used it to pull the bearing onto the stub on one side. With one bearing on, I put that into the hub body, pushing on the outer race with a socket and washers. I may have taken the flange nut out and used a larger bolt as a puller, or I might have just tapped with a hammer. It wasn't difficult. I again used the flange nut to pull the other bearing into place.

Finally, I used the flange nut to pull one endcap into place, removed it and pressed the last endcap with the quick release. Before this final press, I marked a line on the stub axle where it met the bearing inner race and checked that that line did not move as I pressed the endcap in place.

This was tedious.

Additional notes about the flange nut puller: first, a "flange nut" is a hex nut formed with a flange that acts to spread the load as a washer would. I was lucky that I had a flange nut that matched the OD of the stub axle perfectly and all I had to do was to file parallel flats on the flange so that it would slip inside the stub axle. I also knocked some corners off of the hex nut so that it could flip over once inside the spacer. Sand the edges smooth so that it won't catch on inside edges of the stub.

To pull on the flange nut, I used a long, fully threaded bolt with a nut run all the way to the head and threaded that into the flange nut after passing through the washers, sockets or whatever spacers needed. I would then tighten the nut against the spacers to pull against the flange nut inside the axle.
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Old 06-14-22, 07:20 PM
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Hi VonC,

I'm at gmail.com.
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Old 06-14-22, 07:21 PM
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and I'm only four more posts before I'm less a newbie.
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Old 06-16-22, 12:33 AM
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Some pictures of the bits I used to disassemble the Phil Wood hubs

modified and original flange nuts



Clamp holding v-blocks against endcap



View of two washers pushing v-block



Close-up of screws spreading washers apart

Sorry that I don't have time to give a thorough description.
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Old 06-16-22, 05:35 PM
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So, you used angle-iron for V-blocks. That's a good idea. I have most of the tools to do this.
Without the spacer lip to catch on, whats going to keep the v-blocks from pulling off?
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Old 06-16-22, 07:19 PM
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It was aluminum channel stock, split in half on the table saw to be angle-aluminum. I wanted something softer than steel to bear against the hub shaft and I had a lot of scrap channel stock around. You might note that the 1/8" aluminum stock was doubled, with the two layers bolted together. I don't know if doubling was necessary, but I didn't want to remake it if it wasn't strong enough.

You are correct, friction of the v-blocks isn't really enough to pull against. The lip on the endcap helped a lot and perhaps that was the intention of the lip. However, the endcap is a very light press fit into the bearing. On reassembly, I was able to push the endcap back into the bearing by hand. I assume that my inexpensive bearings (VXB 6001) were properly toleranced; I didn't think to calibrate against the bearing I removed.
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