StanSeven

Just some advice as an experienced long term runner. Don’t do anything differently from natural style running including foot plant and landing. That’s especially true at our age. One can easily injure ourselves by altering what our body wants to do normally.

cj3209

I could never run more than half a mile when I was younger because I was landing on my heel and it aggravated my knees to the point that I took up cycling. Last year, I did some research and found that to avoid hurting my knees, purposefully landing on the front part of my foot reduced aggravating my knees to the point that I can run almost 10 miles without any pain. I think what you mean is that everyone is built differently and has different running styles and that they should find a style that reduces/eliminates any issues; I do know some people have no issues landing on their heels so I get it.

StanSeven

That’s it exactly. Too often people finds s style that works for them. Then they experiment and get injured.

terrymorse 

Studies have been done comparing the damage caused by running vs. cycling.

TL;DR - running is significantly worse than cycling.

cj3209

I do both but I like cycling more.

canklecat

Without more info and context, that study may only prove that more people (who are physically capable of running) need coaching and careful training to run without injury. Particularly older folks. I took too much for granted because I was very fit and played many sports in my youth. None of which made any difference 40 years later after a long layoff from doing anything more strenuous than walking and cycling.

It's definitely easier to get injured from running with poor form. It seems like something we can all do instinctively. But in retrospect I realize I was merely lucky to get away with no coaching and terrible running form when I was young because... I was young. A 20 minute 5k seemed easy then. Now it's a struggle to crack a 30 minute 5k. I've done it once this year and suffered injuries almost immediately because of over-striding and inadequate base fitness to strengthen muscles that were recruited only when I ran faster.

Cycling is pretty easy to do without injury, as long as we don't crash or get hit by a car. While self-identified cyclists nitpick over bike fit, it really isn't that important for casual cycling. Most of us won't notice any problems until we ramp up the pace and time in saddle. That's when we look for tips online or coaching in person.

As soon as I began experiencing twinges from running I pored over as many YouTube tutorials from qualified coaches as I could find. Immediately I recognize my poor form and mediocre base conditioning were the real problems.

While getting back into running shape I followed the various similar plans that recommend alternating between jogging with reasonably short strides, and walking as soon as we tire and our form begins to deteriorate. I'd jog 50 yards, then walk; then 100 yards, then walk; then 400 yards, etc. Took a few weeks to run a mile continuously; then 3 miles continuously. I did fine, as long as I didn't get too ambitious. But as soon as I ignored the warning signs of fatigue, poor form, etc., sure enough... minor injuries.

One thing that helped was switching to Under Armour Hovr Sonic shoes with Bluetooth sensors in the right shoe. These connect with the Map My Run app for real-time audible coaching tips (I got earbuds so I could hear the voice prompts over ambient noise).

When I first got the UA Hovr Sonics in February the app was constantly reminding me about my terrible form -- over-striding, bouncing heavily rather than gliding, mismatched candence/pace, etc. And the app records a lot of data we'd never see in Strava, Wahoo Fitness or other apps, including footstrike angle and duration.

Over the next few weeks I'd follow those prompts, adjust my form, and reduced my injuries. Now I rarely even hear the voice prompts because they only pop up when my running form is bad.

I'd highly recommend those Under Armour Hovr tech shoes with Bluetooth sensor for beginning runners, or anyone resuming running after a long hiatus like me. By the time you wear out that first pair (usually around 200-300 miles for good running shoes, sometimes up to 500 miles for light-footed folks), you might not need that voice coaching. And you can always disable it.

UA Hovr shoes aren't the lightest or softest around. At around 10 oz they're pretty typical of most trainers. I have lighter weight shoes around 6-8 oz, but they're more demanding to run in. The Hovr soles are firmer than adidas Boost, but significantly softer and more comfortable than Lightstrike, or similarly responsive EVA midsoles. But they're a great value, usually well under $100. I buy 'em at Ross and Marshalls discount stores for around $30, usually open box or no-box specials, often discontinued from a year or two ago, but brand new. Great way to get started and minimize injuries.

canklecat

Ditto. If we pay too much attention to running tutorials online, particularly in videos, younger coaches and runners tend to emphasize forefoot striking as the one and only acceptable form. But their assertions are refuted by easily visible evidence in elite level runners, who have varied forms.

In longer distance runs, only Eliud Kipchoge is the most consistent forefoot striker, and even his form degrades toward the end of a race. Recently I watched the final stretch of a marathon with Kipchoge and several other elite long distance runners, and it was easy to see a range of styles, mostly midfoot strikers, with Kipchoge being the only forefoot striker and another fellow close behind who was a heavy heel striker.

I'm a midfoot striker and don't plan to change anything. I check the outsoles of my shoes regularly and the wear patterns are consistent, showing a rolling gait along the outer edge and pushoff from the forefoot. There's nothing wrong with my foot strike. All of my minor injuries are due to poor form in other areas, especially over-striding, failing to warm up properly, failing to work on leg exercises in addition to running, and ignoring the early warning signs such as fatigue and deteriorating form and pushing on until injuries occur.

I do practice forefoot running, very carefully, for short distances -- 100-400 yards at most -- mostly for strengthening and developing the entire leg and foot. I also jog backward, do sideways/lateral stuff, etc., to improve overall fitness and balance. Basically all the same stuff I did training for amateur boxing in the 1970s. But I'll never be able to adapt to the forefoot strike I see in some runners.

And I've noticed some YouTube experts who claim to be forefoot strikers... aren't. You can clearly see by slowing down their videos that they're midfoot and sometimes heel strikers. But some YouTube shoe-reviewers will consciously or unconsciously "pose" for the video segments of their feet/shoes. You can see them changing their gait to make it look as those they're running on their forefoot or toes. But they don't sustain it. They just claim they do.

And the comment sections are filled with self-styled experts critiquing the running style of every running coach and shoe reviewer.

afm199

I'm 75 and used to be a runner and competitor. I was good enough to be Invitational status at the Dipsea, and ran the Double Dipsea with Walt Stack. 36 minute 10k and one hour 10 mile are my race records.

I had to give up running. In the end the damage to my feet and ankles stopped me from competing and eventually just made it unpleasant. The last time I ran fast was in the eighties, and it's been at least ten years since I ran.

I love bicycling. If the weather is bad, I use my trainer or rollers, set up the TV, and pedal away. If the weather is good, I'm outside riding.

Glad I can still cycle.

cj3209

Well that's sobering. I'm 52 and run 4-5 times a week (~9 minute pace), 5-8 miles at a time. I hope to do this until I'm 90, body willing...

afm199

You may be able to. Look up "Walt Stack." It will put a smile on your face.

Some of us don't have the body for running.

Clyde1820

Did a 35min 10K once, along with a 75min half-marathon. Wasn't capable of that on a regular basis, but I could maintain much of that speed for several hours. Was about a 2:50 marathon pace for such distance, though never did an official marathon race. Trained with a 2:30-ish runner with much more experience, so that helped. Never did do the Dipsea.

There were a couple of hard, hilly races that I thought I'd do better at, near where I lived at one time. A ten-miler and a ~8.5-miler. Both drew notables from outside the region. Didn't perform well on those courses. I'd chalked it up to improper prep for the terrain involved, in those instances. But, who knows.

Had considered attempting the Western States 100 (was training at that level), but injuries derailed that. Had to give up running because of it. Loved it. Still do, watching at least. It's fun to see some of the more-competitive races in the region, including state cross-country championships and the like.

So it's cycling and other gym-type activities for these old bones.

Congrats to those who can still run the trails and put in the miles.

cj3209

"I'm going to do this 'til I get planted.' !

Awesome!

afm199

He was a splendid old dude, ran the Double Dipsea with him. He really inspired me.

rowerek

Another inspirational runner is Ed Whitlock,
36 world age class records on the road and track,
including marathon in category 85-89.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Whitlock

Chuck M 

I last posted in this thread less than 4 months ago. In May about 10 miles into a half marathon it hit me, and I knew that I knew that I knew I would never run another half marathon. While my cycling endurance and mileage is improving, my running has rapidly declined. This morning was my second run since early may and I hated it, had to really get into the right mind to start it and worked hard to convince myself to not quit it.

Lest I think it is a mental thing, the Garmin training effect data recommended 4 days of recovery. While I realize that data may be flawed, and it may simply be due to laying off running for a few weeks, it has never told me to recover that many days. I'm starting to not like being over 50 but I suppose it is better than the alternative.

easyupbug 

We all have differing bodies, some better for running than others. I have cycled for 65 or so years and when job and family took all my time I ran for ~30 years to save a few precious minutes and still get a workout. Today with knee troubles impacting my back and posture I wish I had never run a step.

Carbonfiberboy 

Yes, cycling is easier on the bod than is running. Which doesn't mean that running is inherently damaging or dangerous. Cycling is classified as a "non-technical sport." That sounds a bit weird because of all the tech involved in cycling. But "technical" doesn't refer to technology, it refers to technique. It really takes no technique at all to push the pedals in a circle. Running is highly technical. If you don't do it right, you can get injured.

I've had to quit riding for a month to heal a saddle sore, so I've gone back to running at 76. I used to run a lot as a young man, nothing more than 10k, and mostly to support my XC ski habit, but I loved doing it. I was a forefoot striker, partly by inclination, but mostly because of what was available then in a light running shoe. I used to trail run in indoor track shoes. Eventually, meaning at about 22, I injured my feet doing that and gave it up for a few decades. I'm a heel-midfoot striker now, running 2.6 miles almost every day. My legs hurt like the devil for the few few days but are fine now. Cycling is so easy by comparison.

Very large long-term studies of runners vs. non-runners have found that runners have no more knee issues than non-runners, sort of the use it or lose it thing, which of course doesn't mean that runners have no knee issues!

Yesterday, I was talking with a female cyclist of about 65 who's having real knee troubles simply because she doesn't get enough range of motion or strength work on the bike. As we get older, we have to stretch and do range of motion and strength work regularly. Starting to do that work after never having done it until one is old is a long, tortuous process. It helps that I've been a gym member since '79 and got back in the gym as soon as the Covid restrictions permitted.

Sorg67

Very informative comment! I agree. I both run and cycle. I am keeping in shape for backcountry skiing and hiking. I recently took some time off from running due some back issues. Probably due to improper technique and may pushing my program too hard. I do agree with your comment about running being more sensitive to proper technique. As well as avoiding over-training. I would not say that cycling has no technique. But I would agree that the technique is less critical to avoiding pain and injury. And it is probably easier to get the technique right on a bike. Or right enough to avoid injury. Can get pretty complex to get the bike fit exactly right. But I think the finer points of a proper bike fit are probably less critical than getting running technique right. I think my back issues with running may be due in part to posture and gait. That is difficult to correct. I am working on a soft gait. Less concerned with perfect efficiency. More concerned with wear and tear on the body. Should probably get some professional advice.

Carbonfiberboy 

Certainly agree with trying a softer gait. Look at "shuffle running" on YT. Also, I think leg strength and fitness has a lot to do with being able to run with a soft gait. I got a nasty case of sciatica last summer from running as a geezer with insufficient back strength, gyms being closed from Covid and me being off the bike with a saddle sore. I fixed my back up with specific stretches, more info on request.

This summer I'm back in the gym, have been riding, and am doing my stretches, so no back issues. Sarcopenia is a real thing and the only way to defend oneself is with strength training and protein. I was out of the gym for a year and it's going to be a long road to getting my strength back. My wife and I are going hiking in the mountains today, only 7 miles and 2000', but it's a start. Our cycling goal was a group bike tour a couple weeks ago. Our training has now shifted to our annual 10-day backpack in early September, only 6 weeks away, a very short time! That's what the running is about.

pgjackson

20 years in the Marines and I can say for certain that running is harder on old legs. Even a basic 3 mile run would make my knees, hips and ankles very sore. Retired about 8 years ago and have run maybe 10 times since. Although a long bike ride makes me feel more fatigued after, it doesn't hurt my joints like running does. Now that I'm in my 50's I prefer short bike rides. No more 20-40 mile half-day events. My typical ride now is a 12 mile speed run, more like a TT (I have a great loop that leaves right from my driveway and very little traffic). Not as fast as I used to be 10 years ago, but I'm working on getting back up to speed. So, I can go run for 30 minutes and kill my knees or go ride for about 40 minutes and feel great after.
Injuring my knee running is what got me into cycling.

pgjackson

Depends on what kind of cycling you are doing. Riding a fat beach cruiser or some hybrid bike at a casual pace around the neighborhood is WAAAYYYY different that hammering away on a road bike doing 21mph. Road cycling is incredibly technical, especially when climbing.

canklecat

After more than 7 months running (458 miles so far this year), I'm still not convinced running is harder than riding. Just different.

Different conditioning, different techniques, different equipment, different expectations. Took awhile to build up enough base fitness from running to make a fair comparison.

Both are as hard or easy as I want to make them. There's no coasting in running but on easy days I can slow to a shuffle-jog or recon-shuffle, or even walk to reduce my heart rate on easy days.

But full gas cycling still feels harder to me, especially on climbs. Once my heart rate approaches 160 bpm, cycling feels really hard, like I'm on the verge of gassing out and my legs turning to jelly. I can hold 160 bpm longer in running. But both are equally hard when I hit my maximum HR of around 170-173 bpm. Maybe there's still some differences in technique that may change over time and experience.

Biggest difference? Running is cheaper. Although I had to buy 7 pairs of shoes to find two that work really well for me. Four pair that are okay for easy jogging days. One pair that's good only for walking, not running or even jogging.

It's hard to compare equipment. Getting comparable results from a bike might involve nothing more than different tires and tubes, or going tubeless. Assuming the bike was decent to begin with.

Jogging is still less hassle on days when I haven't decided what kind of workout I want to do. Shoes, shorts, shirt, go. With the bike I have to choose a route depending on day, time of day, traffic, etc. Takes longer to suit up for the road bikes.

CliffordK

Mid 50's here. I did run a couple of marathons in my 30's. Not quick, but I got to the end.

For me, a couple of hours of running, and I'm struggling. On the other hand, I can ride my bike all day.

Well, when I was running, I even bike commuted to the start of the marathons. Couldn't run an inch further, but it was OK to bike back home.

But, all that was 20 years ago. My knees are giving me fits (but cycling seems to be a HUGE positive for the knees). I do think I should try to run a mile or two a week, but I just can't get the motivation to do so.

I do think a little moderate impact is good for the legs, but all in good measure. Maybe a couple of miles a week?

Nonetheless, I enjoy bicycling, and bike commuting.

pgjackson

As we get older, it is vitally important to listen to our bodies. I have injured myself more times than I care to remember by trying to push myself physically to levels that were pretty easy in my 20s and 30s. Once I turned 40 stuff started breaking. A simple 3-mile run turned into a torn meniscus and knee surgery. Lifting a 40lb weight at the gym turned into 6 months of therapy and pain for a strained back/hip. Trying out crossfit at age 48 made it almost impossible to get myself dressed from the all-over aches and pain. Now, if I'm working out and that little voice in my head says "stop"...I stop. Jens Voit's famous quote, "Shut up, legs" is not an option any more. If I want to push myself a bit I have to be keenly aware of what I am doing. It's a difficult thing for a hard-core former gym-rat and lifetime workoutaholic to slow it down. But for the sake of fitness longevity you must listen to your body.

CliffordK

There are lots of people in their 50's that lift weights, run, or compete in triathlons or Iron Man competitions.

But, all in good measure.

If I ran a marathon 20 years ago, I'm not going out and signing up for one without any training.

Start with 1 or 2 miles, and work my way up. And, perhaps go with a half marathon instead.

Also be aware of weight. So if one gained 20+ lbs in one's middle ages, then that must be taken into account when running.

I might consider doing a Century ride with minimal training though. As I said, I can ride all day.