chaadster

Yeah, I meant that fluid changes are tedious, with the two syringes and the back and forth thing to purge air. Is that only a SRAM thing? I’ve not done Shimano fluid change.

Broctoon

Feel strongly about this, do you?

Because all I can say is that's just, like, your opinion, man.


(* Not anti-disc. Just not convinced they're the greatest thing since pockets on a shirt, or that your bike sucks if you still have rim brakes.)

tomato coupe

For the umpteenth time, manufacturers didn't "shove disc brakes down our throats" -- they offered both types, and consumers opted for disc brakes by a wide margin.

terrymorse 

"Hello, consumer. Here's some bikes with disc brakes, just as an option. We can't tell if they're better or worse than our rim brake bikes, but we figured we'd make both and let you decide..."

Yeah, that's definitely how manufacturers market new stuff. <eye-roll>

tomato coupe

The bike manufacturers offered both vanilla and chocolate, and people chose chocolate by a 10:1 ratio. The "manufacturers shoved disc brakes down our throats" theory assumes 90% of the bike-buying population is incapable of making objective decisions about buying vanilla or chocolate.

Darth Lefty 

Toss them in the round file with the chainstay u-brakes

Iride01 

Yes, they'll probably toss a few into the new bike mix just so they can chuckle at all the forum talk it'll create.

terrymorse 

As soon as bike manufactures began offering chocolate (disc brakes), they told consumers that this new chocolate flavor tastes so much better than vanilla that only a fool would keep eating vanilla.

Some of these "chocolate (disc brake) tastes so much better" phrases, pulled from a current web page of one manufacturer:

• lightweight
• powerful
• precision
• additional tire clearance
• reliability
• most significant new technology for road bikes
• versatility
• superior stopping power
• require minimal maintenance
• benefits all road riders
• improved braking modulation
• work in any conditions
• a major innovation in the category
• a must if you imagine exploring more rugged terrain

Gee, I wonder why people chose chocolate over vanilla. I guess we'll never know.

PeteHski

Being a long term mountain biker, I was already pretty sold on disc brakes. So for me it was an easy choice when I went back to road bikes and I was actually quite pleased to see disc brakes on the menu. Roadie friends who have only recently discovered disc brakes really like them too. I don't know anyone who has used discs planning to go back to rim brakes, but I'm sure there will be an exception here on BF though, lol. It seems to me that most people kicking against disc brakes haven't even used them. All sorts of talk of problems and additional maintenance that is massively exaggerated.

Back to the question of manufacturers going back to rim brakes? IMHO not a chance except in very niche circumstances. A better question might be how long will high-end group sets even include rim brake options?

tomato coupe

Again, your argument is based on 90% of the bike-buying public being incapable of seeing past the advertising and making an objective decision.

cxwrench

Quite literally from an hour to a year. Do a wet CX race w/ resin pads, they'll be toast before the end of a 1 hr race. Ride in the dry and don't descend a ton...they last forever.

PeteHski

But if they were actually rubbish people would soon stop buying them, even if they believed every word of marketing BS. IME you can't market a turd for very long without people catching on. The gradual move back to threaded BBs is perhaps a good example.
I'm not seeing this happening with disc brakes. Most people love them and don't have problems.

terrymorse 

Your argument is based on manufacturers offering rim brakes and disc brakes as equally useful options, letting the consumer make an objective decision over which they prefer.

Which is not how the consumer economy works. Manufacturers hype products, and the bulk of consumers buy into the hype. Then manufacturers come up with a new product/feature, and hype that one.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

PeteHski

But it has to be a good product right? Especially if you are going to put it on 90%+ of your bikes.

terrymorse 

Consumers won't have that choice, because the manufacturers will have stopped offering rim brakes.

They essentially already have. Try to find a new high-end road bike with rim brakes.

tomato coupe

In the world you describe, people are at the mercy of advertising. I don't live in that world, and the people I ride with don't live in that world.

tomato coupe

3 of the last 4 bikes I purchased are still available with rim brakes.

terrymorse 

They have only to be good enough -- they must bring a bike to a stop.

If disc brakes were better in every way, then it would benefit consumers to phase out rim brakes.

But they are not.

tomato coupe

They don't have to be better in every way -- the benefits just have to outweigh the negatives.

WhyFi

Sorry, but the position that you're assuming is a bit silly. Big Bike didn't transition to disc overnight, slamming the door shut on rim brakes. They made tentative offerings. They sold. They broadened their offerings. They continued to sell. They reduced their rim brake offerings. People yawned and bought discs.

You're asking us to accept that they're in it for the money, while also asking us to accept that they're leaving money on the table by colluding with other manufacturers in phasing out highly sought-after rim brake bikes.

terrymorse 

That's great news, consumers must still have options then.

Meanwhile, back on Earth...

Trek website lists one entry level road bike with rim brakes, for $1000.
Specialized offers 3 low end models from $1000 to $1500.

Not a single high-end model with rim brakes.

terrymorse 

1. Manufacturers are in it for the money.
2. The marketing hype worked, no need for collusion.

Broctoon

I've used them (hydro discs on my wife's hybrid bike, cable-actuated on at least four bikes currently or formerly in my fleet). I don't kick and scream about it, but I'm still not convinced they are hands-down superior to good rim brakes. There are clear pros and cons with each.

I would totally agree that the talk of problems is exaggerated, similar to the talk of problems with tubeless tires. If you don't want tubeless (or discs), don't get them. You'll be turning your back on some nice benefits. Conversely, if you think disc brakes (or tubeless tires) are the bee's knees... congrats on finding something that works well for YOU. Others may have valid alternative opinions.

In any case, we'll probably never see rim brakes make a big comeback on high end road bikes. We'll almost certainly see hydraulic discs trickle down all the way to the disposable WalMart junk that passes for bikes.

PeteHski

What this really tells you is the current demand for rim brakes. I know you are going to just say that the manufacturers have made the choice for you. But it doesn't really work that way round because there is no monopoly. If rim brakes were superior, the market would move that way because of the competition. A manufacturer offering those superior rim brakes would soon dominate and all their competitors would soon have to follow suit to survive. All that has happened is that disc brakes (which are the end game for pretty much all vehicle braking systems) have inevitably found their way onto bicycles, starting with mtb and now moving to road.

Having used both rim brakes and disc brakes extensively, I know which I prefer. I don't need to read any marketing, I've experienced them both first hand. Luck would have it that all frames now come with my preferred choice of brakes. It doesn't mean rim brakes are rubbish. But I prefer disc brakes for numerous reasons, as do most other consumers.

tomato coupe

If your statement had been "Try to find a new high-end road bike with rim brakes from Specialized" I would have agreed that you can't. But, your statement was "Try to find a new high-end road bike with rim brakes."