Harold74

I'm considering purchasing the Miyata 310 shown in the attached picture and have the following questions:

1) If I wind up needing new versions of those top mount, down tube friction shifters, will those be difficult to come by? Or can side mount friction levers just be installed onto the mounting block (the block, not the braze on)?

2) I have a 1992 Miyata 1000 already. That's a well regarded bike and, frankly, the most comfortable ride I've ever had, including my expensive modern bikes. It seems to me that this 310 may be an equally good ride while also addressing some of the things that I don't love about my 1000. Namely:

a) Both bikes have the triple butted goodness in the frame and are chromoly. The 310 does not have chromoly forks.

b) As far as I can tell, the frame size and geometry are identical.

c) Aesthetically, I have a preference for the following which the 310 has:

i) Caliper brakes.

ii) Double chainring rather than triple.

iii) Non-long cage derailler.

iv) non-Biopace chainrings (I'm actually coming around to these).

Is my assessment accurate? I would like it to be but, then, the world loves the 1000 and regards the 310 as nothing special really so maybe I'm out to lunch somewhere.

And don't get me wrong, despite my petty gripes, I also love my 1000. That said, I don't use it for it's intended purpose which is touring. I just use it as a fitness bike for my regular, 60 min rides near my home primarily. The 1000 LT isn't going anywhere.




Miyata 310

Miyata 1000

Cougrrcj

I ditched the top-mount shifters on my '86 Miyata 710 for barcons. The topmount shifter lug makes for a nice 'anti-slip' shoulder for the barcon's housing stop.



I also upgraded the 710's brakes from the weak G400s - I could literally see the arms of the calipers flexing/bending upon hard braking. The dual pivots work MUCH better!.








I never liked downtube shifters! My '75 Fuji got changed to SunTour barcons within a month of purchase waaaaay back in 1976!!

Harold74

Nice 710! I agree, if that's all that there is to the top mount shifter braze on, other things are possible. On other bikes that I googled, the attachment thing was much more significant.

Cougrrcj

Shimano and sunTour (and possibly others?) made top-mount shifters - BUT the shifter bosses are of different size and/or threading for the two companies, IIRC.

There were some neat double cable stops that bolted directly to the topmount boss, but those are rarer than hen's teeth these days. I just did it my way with the 710. I put the topmount screw back in just to keep it clear of water/debris...) I may find a use for that mount someday...

top506

I think you'll find that boss takes the older Shimano- specific shifters.

Top

Hobbiano 

I think the 310 has more of a sport touring geometry where as the 1000 has a longer wheelbase touring geometry. I would thing the 310 has slightly steeper angles.

mkeller234

Agreed. I’ve had lower end Miyata bikes before, a 210 specifically. I thought the frame was above average for its positioning. It looks like it has nice shimano equipment. I don’t think you have much to lose (depending on price of course). It’s a quality bike.

Harold74

That's helpful. I'll bring my 1000 along and compare them side by side. The geometry on the 1000 may be what makes it so comfy for me.

Harold74

Yeah, I believe it's the Golden Arrow stuff which I've always found kind of sexy. The asking is $250 CAD / $200 USD. That's a little steep I think but, at this juncture, I mostly just want to figure out if it's a bike that I want to have. The photo below shows a version of this that I like the look of.

rgvg

1000 likely has slightly longer chainstays. And heavier wheels. But then it takes wider, comfier tires. The 310 shares a frame with the 710, and I know mine from the same year will only take 25c, or thin 28s (that come out to about 26mm actual). Biopace never really bothered me but then it does some people.

I do have a 1000 LT as well. I like it and my 710, though from time to time I wish my 710 would take wider tires.

Cougrrcj

Nottt quite. While the main triangle is the same triple-butted tubing, according to the '86 Miyata catalog it specifically calls out the ovalCrMo chainstays on the 710, and no such mention on the 310, so who knows what they used there... Also, the 710 got a CrMo fork, 310 is Mangalite...

If you look at the one straight-on photo I provided above, you'll see that there is only about 1mm clearance between the fork bridge and tire with 28mm tires. I was actually brought to a stop once from fresh grass clippings that were blown into the road being picked up by the tire and getting jammed between the top of the tire and fork crown. Who wouldda thunk it, eh? I have since swapped to a 25mm front tire so that doesn't happen again! Plenty of room for the 28mm tire on the rear.

rgvg

Okay, you have better eyes than I do...

I really would like 28s to fit in there, but I don't think I'd be happy with 1mm clearance. I tried 28c continental gp4000s II and they came out larger than 28. No way they would fit in front for me. I heard the 85 and earlier do fit 28s so if I come across one in my size, I'd jump on it.

Pompiere

I've had a 310 since 1984. The geometry is a bit sportier than the 1000, but is still comfortable to ride all day. The high tensile steel fork is slightly heavier than a chromoly fork, but you would be hard pressed to tell the difference in ride. The 310 would be a nice complement to the 1000. I have swapped to lighter wheels and better tires on my 310 and it really responds to the change.

Miyata called the 310, 710, and 912 "semi-pro" bikes for aspiring racers. The 210, 610, and 1000 were "touring" bikes. As the numbers went higher, the level of equipment got better. The frames were pretty similar inside the category, although the tubing quality would be better for the higher levels.

pcb 

Since the 310 has tighter geometry, narrower tire clearance, and some lower-grade tubing, it can't be as comfy a ride as your 1000. Even taking the tubing out of the equation, even with the lightest/bestest wheels/tires on the 310, it's not going to match a nice, decently equipped 1000 in the comfort department. Unless maybe you live in a land of always-perfect ashpalt.

I'm sure if you check out the geometry, comparing a budget-racer 310 to a full-on, high-end touring 1000, you'll see some pretty significant geometry/clearance differences.

Harold74

That's good to know about the 28 tires as I was hoping to run those. The bike appears to have 28's stock but perhaps those are smallish versions of 28's.

My 1000 has 35's and could probably run

38's or larger. It's almost like a poor man's cross bike.

pcb 

I don't know specifics about those Miyata-labeled tires, but those early high-performance clincher tires were often pretty undersized.

You kinda can't be sure without measuring.

Harold74

I looked at the bike last night and, at least as currently set up, it doesn't feel much like my 1000 at all. So there's that.

At first I thought there was plenty of tire clearance but, on the drive home, I realized that the tires were under inflated so I'm stuck still not knowing I guess. I need to develop some kind of checklist for when I go to check out vintage bikes. I always seem to come home with regrets.

The condition of the bike is impeccable. The owner says that he bought it for his 15 1/2 yr old son to ride to his friends' houses. Then the kid turned sixteen, got a car, and the bike hung out in the basement for the next 30 yrs. Based on the condition, that might not be too far from the truth. The owner's a cyclist and a great guy which I always appreciate in these situations.

The one extra negative for me that I discovered was that the hubs are sealed. I actually view that as a drawback in a vintage bike as it means that I can't refurbish the hubs myself periodically. If they crapped out, I suppose that I'd have to build up new wheels which would require some me-training. Hopefully somebody still sells 126 dropout appropriate hubs.

So... price.

1) I feel this would be a no brainer for me at $150 CAD / $125 US.

2) I offered $200 CAD / $165 US on the spot and got rejected. The owner says that he's already got a $225 CAD / $185 offer from a guy that hasn't showed up to view it yet.

3) I feel that the $250 CAD / $205 USD asking price is a bit steep.

How do other's feel about the price of this? There are some things that make this a pretty rare find for me in terms of a long term vintage bike:

a) Perfect paint and overall condition.

b) My size.

c) 700c wheels.

d) Braze on cable routing which I like.

e) Shimano Golden Arrow components which I think are respectable / sexy.

If I pass on it, I'll be waiting a while for something similar. That said, it's not like I don't have other bikes to ride in the meantime.

Harold74

The rims are listed as UKAI Model 20-A 700c GMC/Silver.

Those would definitely be aluminum alloy rather than steel, right? Despite being a structural engineer, I struggle with metal identification on old bikes.

Harold74

The photo that I just posted above has a sticker that says "sport swap". That kinda has be questioning the origin story.

pcb 

It sounds like you've already pretty much decided it's not worth the higher asking price, and you've got plenty of other bikes to ride.

But since you asked for opinions...

I tend to shy away from fair/reasonable? questions, since regional market differences and individual degrees of desire/lust makes things topsy-turvy. I'm better with generalities.

If you won't feel bad if you lose out for not offering $50 more, and if finding something similar/nicer in similar/nicer condition at similar/reasonable prices aren't terrible, let it pass? Or hope the higher offer doesn't pan out?

If you'll be kicking yourself, and it might take months+ to find something else as interesting, maybe cough up the extra $50?

My dispassionate side says you don't know if it it'll fit the tires you want to ride, and for me these days, unless we're talking a true grail bike, I won't buy anything for me to ride without being sure about tire clearance.

My snobby side says I'm very impressed by how nice that mid-level frame looks. Miyata did a really nice job of not making lower-spec frames feel like lower-spec frames, as opposed to, say, Fuji, where the drop in frame construction/look from high-end to just two steps down was huge. But my snobby side also says I'd be wanting to upgrade a bunch of the components, especially the brakes, bottom bracket, saddle and pedals---and then I'd want wider bars. So it wouldn't be a $250 bike by the time I was done upgrading, and offloading the cheaper subbed parts wouldn't bring much ca$h.

All that said, once it's all sorted out, should be a really nice rider----if it fits 28mm tires. For me, anyway.

rgvg

Well, I don't know about your location but in Vancouver that's a good price for a bike in that condition. If it fits you, well, ...

If it's anything like my 710 it feels zippier than the 1000. For 60 minute rides, it's fine. Don't know what the condition of the streets are in your neck of the woods though.

Harold74

@pcb: thanks for all of your help so far. I haven't actually made up my mind about whether or not it's worth the asking price. I struggle to know the value of these things mightily. The situation that doesn't feel good to me is when I buy something for $250 and later find out that other people have gotten the same thing for $80 (that comp bike was had for $80 USD). Maybe it's just my ego but that would forever taint my perception of my forever bike. I'd at least like to be able to look back on this when folks ask and be able to say "meh, it wasn't a bargain but it was a fair price.".

Regarding the mods that you listed, my current plan is this:

1) Tear down and rebuild.
2) Modern tires like the serfas in that one pic above.
3) Bull horns with bar end brake levers.
4) New freewheel and chain.
5) Probably SRAM Apex brakes in black.
6) Maybe a new wheelset in the future.

So I'm not gunning for a showroom restoration or period correctness. That said, this is the only vintage bike that I've viewed where the brake levers and hoods are also in mint condition which makes the vintage restoration kind of appealing. Long story short, the value of the mods that I'll make will exceed the purchase cost of the bike. I'm not concerned with any of the after purchase costs though. I just want to have gotten a fair deal out of the gate.

Harold74

@RVGv: thanks for the semi-local data point. That's just the kind of feedback that I'm seeking. I live beside Calgary's Glenmore reservoir which has a pretty well paved path around it that I ride on my lunch break. The pick of my 1000 above is facing into the reservoir. That said, it's asphalt, not those pavers. This would represent 90% of the rides that I'd be doing on the 310. That and some booting around the hood to pick scotch / wind/ veggie wheels. And for the hood booting, I'm more into style / bike love than comfort. I can survive anything for ten minutes.

Harold74

@pcb: I think that I can verify the tire clearance prior to purchase still. I'll attempt that.

Hobbiano 

Sealed hubs doesn't mean you can't service them yourself. It's either a sealed loose ball and cone system (most likely) or sealed cartridge bearings (I doubt it but would be great if it was) . Either can be worked on easily.