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How Do You Flippers Make Any Money?

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How Do You Flippers Make Any Money?

Old 02-14-21, 11:54 AM
  #26  
alexihnen 
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I wouldn't call myself a flipper (who does?), but I've flipped a few bikes. I'll give a couple of examples. I bought a LeMond TVT listed on Facebook with really bad photos. The wheels were nice Ksyriums. The bottle cages were bent and bar tape was trash. The rest just looked dirty, some dog hair, etc., but with Dura Ace 7400 and decals intact. I bought it for $700, $875 including packing and shipping. I sold the wheels for $250 net. So I'm at $625. I took a pretty nice set of Dura Ace wheels w/ Continental tires from a rough Trek 770 I bought this past year for $275 (sold the frame for $200 & other parts for $100) and put them on the bike. So still at $625. Then I had to source white Dura Ace 7400 brake lever hoods. That set me back $60. A new chain and white bike ribbon were $30. Cables and housing $20. So...$735. Hours? Not sure, probably 10-15? It's a hobby so not sure how to value that. There were a few accessories that came with the bike. I sold those for $80. Now at $655. I sold the bike for $2,000.

I took that and bought a well used Seven Elium with Dura Ace for $1,000 ($1,150 w/ packing/shipping), replaced saddle, tape, tires ($100), and sold for $1,800 after a deep clean. The shifters weren't working, had to tear down derailleur, soak and clean the chain, etc. Anyway, a couple of those, and I have a bike fund to play with. There have been others I've stumbled upon as well. They each feel quite lucky, but seem to come along at regular intervals. Some are ready to ride, some aren't. I will say that the searching is at least 1/2 the fun, but also exhausting. Whenever I feel the pressure to make $, the fun disappears. I think I could make a little money if I really focused on this, but as I said, it's exhausting, and worse if there's pressure to make X amount each month.

Also, I've only bought bikes I plan to ride. You never know if they're going to sell, and riding is what they're for! I ride a 55-56cm, so it's a pretty easy size to sell as well. I did a few really fun rides on the LeMond TVT, maybe 200 miles, and the Elium fit my wife. I'd planned to keep that one for her, but she didn't like the color. Oh well. It takes a ton of time to learn the market and know when to make an offer and when to just wait. You have to know what's rare, cool, valuable, and they aren't the same thing. I see so many bikes that I think are a bargain but the market doesn't agree. I've kind of slid into wanting to find small shop American made steel lugged bikes. There are some that go for big $, like Eisentraut, Bayliss, Weigle, and Sachs, but most do not, even though they should! So finding a mid-80s custom DiNucci or Colian is awesome, but you're not going to make any money on them unless they were very very cheap.

To round out the story, I've been able to buy quite a few bikes I really love. They're more or less paid for, though perhaps that doesn't account for all the shipping cost, or bar tape and brake pads, etc. I think I'm happy to now ride them, sell to someone who will really appreciate the bike for basically what I have in them, and then experience another bike on my wish list.

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Old 02-14-21, 12:07 PM
  #27  
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Oh and to answer OP's question ... If you're reading this and you're in it to flip for profit as I have been from time to time over the years, there are ways to do it the right way, not using the wash-and-flip-as-refurbished method. Like...

I often load up on tires at BikeTiresDirect when deals pop up in the $7-9/ea range. Cheapest rate I've gotten at BTD with stacked coupons during a sale is ~$5/tire. Buying in bulk will net you free shipping or heavily reduce the per-unit ship rate.

On Amazon, the Schwinn cable kits will do an entire bike for $8-12. It's not difficult to buy tubes as cheap as $1-2/ea and bulk boxes of brake pads/blocks for cents on the dollar if you're alright with an "good enough" quality product.

Bar tape ... I keep eyes peeled for bulk-buy deals and/or buy less popular colors or styles. Sometimes you can net BOGO deals or catch closeouts on nicer tape, or find people offloading old stock cheap (usually in bulk) on eBay.

The above, some lube, elbow grease, and occasionally a chain is roughly all anyone needs to properly overhaul a bike for profit. I can complete a full overhaul, down to the hub, in 3-5 hours if needed.

My last bit of flipper advice: Before you start hunting, decide on a minimum price/profit threshold and stick to it religiously. I personally have a price/profit threshold of $[double my consumables], i.e. I know I'm out ~$80 in consumables on any bike I buy, so my price/profit threshold is $160. Therefore, I do not buy a bike unless the purchase price is at least $160 less than what I can sell it for..
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Old 02-14-21, 12:10 PM
  #28  
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taxes

Don't forget to pay the proper taxes on your profits.
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Old 02-14-21, 12:18 PM
  #29  
tyrion
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Originally Posted by markk900
..... Still if you are into a bike for $100 just to get it rideble even as a free bike I doubt I could ever sell it for $100...... how do you flippers do it?
Make it up in volume.
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Old 02-14-21, 12:30 PM
  #30  
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I make money...just never made a profit!
Seriously the only way this works for me is my mindset that it's not a business, (for me), it's a hobby. I don't keep books cause if I did I'm sure I'd never fix a bicycle again and get into something with real potential...like day trading!
Most of my "flips" are not to strangers so I'm motivated to give these folks a good price which I arrive at by trying to cover the cost of the PARTS and usually none of my LABOR. This is not the formula to follow if you hope to make any profit (see Retailing 101). So follow me to the poorhouse, people!
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Old 02-14-21, 12:42 PM
  #31  
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You'd be surprised at some of the higher-end bikes that end up getting donated to charity thrift stores. The stores don't do a thing to them and bikes can purchased for as little as $20. I'm talking some higher end Italian bikes as well as the discount store BSOs. I've seen Fuji Touring series III, IV and V... Miyatas... Bianchi... at the thrift stores. My sister had her ex's Austro Diamler Reynolds 531 tubing bike that she donated He had paid north of $400 for it in 1977, so it was up there in the hierarchy...
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Old 02-14-21, 12:45 PM
  #32  
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#1) CHEAP as possible on bike to flip. FREE is best!
#2) Have plenty of seats! Most bikes I've grabbed had seats in terrible condition -or missing. can't sell a bike without a decent seat.
#3) Although it's getting less so nowadays, I always kept plenty of cleaned and lubed freewheels around. Have the appropriate remover on hand, and just swap out freewheels. You can work on the new "donor" cogset later.
#4) Stick with MTB or hybrid frames, plus kids bikes flip fast. the high end racing steeds tend to need a motivated, rich, light rider - and they are not common! lol
#5) Have an established network. I.E. people who know you do bikes, keep interest up, craigslist account, etc. Building a bike and then trying to hunt down a buyer is slow and tedious.
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Old 02-14-21, 01:00 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by markk900
I like to fix them up... But I tend to stay away from the really crappy bikes.
This. It's rewarding "in and of itself" to refurbish bikes that I want to wrench on: upper mid level with Campy. If it's lower-level than that, it can be quite a chore or a bore. If it fits, I can also ride it for a while before I flip it. Which is nice.

It's also nice when I can part a few things out that are really expensive to help offset the cost of consumables. A first gen Cyclone rear derailleur, for example...
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Old 02-14-21, 01:10 PM
  #34  
southpawboston
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My first foray into flipping involved finding a Trek 400 Elance on eBay, posted by an inexperienced seller. The auction title was "Old mans bike". The photos were really poor, so it was hard to know the condition. I got it for $100 shipped. When I got it, it ended up being a time capsule. Barely ridden, and obviously stored inside as it had zero rust. It cleaned up nicely and I flipped it with nothing more than new handlebar tape for over $400. I thought I was onto something, but it turned out to be beginner's luck. I haven't had a profit margin as good ever since. I probably could have similar experiences again but at this point in my life it's not worth the time to scour eBay and CL for the occasional win. At this point, I'll only focus on scoring bikes I might want to keep for myself.
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Old 02-14-21, 01:32 PM
  #35  
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I don't know how road bike guys manage, but in vintage BMX collecting often the value is in the parts. It can take years to find the correct parts to show up and if you need it well you are going to pay through the nose for it. With BMX most of the guys don't ride them anymore anyways. So I think selling a road bike it is much more difficult because you have the added problem of size and fit. I noticed my friends who are into road bikes and flip them often sell theirs to University fixie kids. They find a road bike for under $100 cad, hose it down and then sell it as a "fixie project" for $200cad. It's kinda sad to see so many beautiful vintage bikes end up mangled this way.
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Old 02-14-21, 02:12 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cbrstar
I don't know how road bike guys manage, but in vintage BMX collecting often the value is in the parts. It can take years to find the correct parts to show up and if you need it well you are going to pay through the nose for it. With BMX most of the guys don't ride them anymore anyways. So I think selling a road bike it is much more difficult because you have the added problem of size and fit. I noticed my friends who are into road bikes and flip them often sell theirs to University fixie kids. They find a road bike for under $100 cad, hose it down and then sell it as a "fixie project" for $200cad. It's kinda sad to see so many beautiful vintage bikes end up mangled this way.
I bought pretty really nice Campy-laden Trek from a guy about an hour north of ATL a couple years back. He was listing kinda high and it wasn't selling, when it dipped into my range I bit. Drove out to grab it, BMX was his thing, he had BMX frames and parts all over. We talked about price, he mentioned how the Campy crank on the Trek bike was actually something BMX guys would pay out the nose for, at least 2/3 what I was paying for the bike. I was shocked until he showed me what he was making parting out BMX, guy was making a high 5-figure income with his parting activities.

Closed out our chat with him offering some free road shoes. Nice guy. But yeah, that interaction opened my eyes to what BMX stuff is worth and how little I know about that scene. I was into skateboarding around the time BMX & Freestyle was the "in" thing. I always wanted a GT Performer or Pro freestyle (they always had the best colors) or maybe a Haro Master. Needless to say, I couldn't afford either. Skateboarding was cheaper. I absolutely destroyed the cheap-o BMX bike my parents gave me hitting dirt jumps we made around the neigbhorhood.
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Old 02-14-21, 02:26 PM
  #37  
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We used to have this bike auction twice a year in town where the bike association got permission to block off a section of a road downtown to vehicular traffic. Sellers would pick their spot to set up on both sides at the curb - first come, first serve. Did OK for a couple of years, then the rules changed and you had to schedule with them where you would set up. Friends and the well-connected (or well greased!) vendors got the primo spots, and people like me were left with only the out-of-the-way locations. With COVID I don't even know if they're doing it. And I prefer not to have every Tom, Dick, and Harry coming by my house. Lately my bike building has been for friends and family only.
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Old 02-14-21, 02:34 PM
  #38  
lasauge 
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To add to what others have said, from 2014-2017 I flipped a fair number of bikes and did make money at it - not a lot, but enough to cover the costs of acquiring and maintaining a small collection of personal bikes. Turning a profit with used bikes is tough since you need to be in a market both where bikes can be found at low prices and there's also enough demand from buyers to be able to sell them readily. The trick with consumables is to buy them bulk, but for that to make sense you need to commit to working on bikes for an extended period and have space to store lots of things too.
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Old 02-15-21, 01:06 AM
  #39  
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Although I rarely buy a bike solely for resale, I have figured out that around this area its all about brand recognition and price.
People also won't pay for labor.
The only way to make a sure profit is to get it for free or super cheap and just sell it as-is for what ever you can get.
They won't pay any more for a nice clean, fully serviced bike than they will one that barely makes it down the road.
New tires are out of the question, if I have to spend $20 for tires, that may well be the difference between getting my money back or losing money.
Vintage anything is a tough sell, most see it as just being 'old'. They don't want vintage, they want cheap. Over and over again I've listed two bikes side by side, for example, list a Raleigh Sports and a cheap Huffy both for $100, the Huffy will sell for $75-$80, but the Raleigh sits without any interest. In most cases I end up parting out the better bike to make any money. Generally I can get more for the wheels alone than I can get for a whole bike around here.
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Old 02-15-21, 01:15 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by markk900
I am not a flipper, nor do I want to become one. I find the occasional cheap/free bike, and I like to fix them up and either give them away to friends who need a bike or (in a lot of cases keep them as they have some sentimental value to me). But I tend to stay away from the really crappy bikes.

The other day however a friend called me to say she had picked up an inexpensive bike for her husband and would I be willing to "tune it up"? Absolutely - something to do in lockdown. When she brought it over it was a low end department store "dual suspension" mountain bike. I let her know that it wasn't a very good bicycle and the parts might be worth more than the bike but she said go ahead.....so I did.

Long story short, it got a complete lubrication overhaul since the majority of the problems (besides the basic cheapness of the bike) were lack of maintenance. However, and here is where my question comes in, by the time I was done I had put nearly $100 in parts into it. Maybe its the pandemic but tires were the most expensive part at $28 each (CAD), one tube at $10 CAD (luckily one was still fine), and various cables (after much trying could not get some of the siezed cables undone so used inners (@$5 each) or full cables ($8 each) as sparingly as possible. I reused an old chain (free) I had as the one on there refused to budge after a good soaking..... Still if you are into a bike for $100 just to get it rideble even as a free bike I doubt I could ever sell it for $100...... how do you flippers do it?

BTW - at each stage I confirmed with the owner that I was about to buy stuff and were they *really sure* they wanted it.....Bike is now pretty much as good (or bad) as it was when it left the department store (except for a few scratches).
Your experience sums up my own,regarding money/effort put into a bike that is not a very good pick to start with,and this is why a tired bike boom 10 spd is typically not a good starting point to get into restoration.
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Old 02-15-21, 08:51 AM
  #41  
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I stopped refurbishing bikes with the intent to sell, but did it for a few years and increased my bike account a good bit.
I used the local co-op for some parts, and often times updated the bike to make it more appealing.

Everything I refurbished was mid-level so nothing collectible and therefore I wasnt going to sell to someone who wanted the bike to be all original.

Keys were-
- buy low. Buy the bike for a good price, buy components for a good price.
- create value. Improve the bike's value through a full tune-up at least, and more likely replacing consumables like tires, cables and housing, brake pads, and bar tape.
- show a clean bike with clearly stated changes. Take good pictures that highlight that the bike is in proper working order and show off the consumables you added to it. Clearly list the changes so its easily understood that you added value.

I often times used Microshift 7, 8, or 9sp shifters to update the shifting on older bikes. These were $40-50 per pair on ebay and I could sell a bike for $100+ more with em. A $200 downtube road bike that might sit for a couple weeks was easily a $300 in demand quick sell with some new Microshift STIs or used Shimano Claris/Sora STIs added.

I only worked on road bikes, early 90s hybrids, or MTBs from the late 80s/early 90s. I didnt get into refurbishing suspension because except for a rare few MTBs from the 90s, they arent worth the time or money since MTB tech has moved on 9x at this point.
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Old 02-15-21, 11:04 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by iab
What's your labor rate?
I don't really have one. I would guess I make somewhere around $15-$20 an hour on these bikes. For such a low rate you have to enjoy it, or it's not worth it.
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Old 02-15-21, 11:10 AM
  #43  
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markk900 Glad to hear someone in TO not buying to flip leaving some nice bikes for the collectors There's a local FB group of someone who definitely flips bikes as I was seeing the bikes on FB market and then would see them a week later in his group for way more. Not sure how he was able to sell them but I guess there's always a buyer. You and I are were probably looking in the same markets and this summer was crazy with how fast bikes went and how much they went for. Not sure how these guys get on a post so fast and buy it up.
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Old 02-15-21, 11:25 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by francophile

Exactly "sanity" dollars per hour. Overhauling things is a huge mental off-gas for me, and my mental health is priceless. I could probably average out the exact rate, but it'd be nearly impossible to quantify the value?
Bingo.
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Old 02-15-21, 02:11 PM
  #45  
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I thought about doing some "flipping" (or really, buy, fully disassemble and refurbish, shine up, test ride, and sell for a logical sum) recently, and had thought about it a few years ago. I know what kind of bike sells at what price range more or less, and especially now, "deals" are very thin on the ground. And maybe I'm not in it for the grind. I've worked on plenty of trashed bikes, and I've worked on plenty of nice ones. The bike has to be pretty compelling on a number of fronts for me to consider it, especially if it isn't my size. If it is my size, that makes it considerably easier. But then I want to upgrade the bike to more modern standards (dual pivot brakes, better gearing, indexed shifting, 700C), and that gets out of hand pretty quickly. People buy a bike because they want to ride a bike, but if a bike or that bike has limitations in stopping, climbing, ease of use, or comfort, then that becomes a hindrance to those that have just bought it. Defeats the whole purpose, IMO. Seattle metro area riding demands that there be gears to accommodate the many steep ascents, as well as the brake calipers to safely and quickly stop on the descents (or anywhere else), with easy and comfortable brake lever actuation.

So I basically doom myself to never flipping because I love the process of bringing a bike back and having it work as good or better than ever before. And then, when the time comes to sell it, have it be a great bike for its new owner. Counting my labor as zero (which goes without saying), breaking even is a win for me and overall I've been able to do that in my years of bike wrenching. My "profit" is the knowledge gained along the way. I get a "free" education and "rent" the bikes for free. Winning all the way around.
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Old 02-15-21, 04:01 PM
  #46  
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It's possible to make money on flipping bikes? I get what I like, fix it up and ride it around. Decide if I want to keep it or sell it. I always figured that this was part of my enrichment. I got to experience some nice bikes along the way that changed the way I thought about bicycles.

For instance, I picked a Raleigh DL-1. Ancient bike that somehow survived into still being manufactured into the late '70's. But I liked the laid back geometry and upright riding position. I didn't love the braking, but had to admire the engineering that went into designing the braking system before Bowden cables.

I worked at a Schwinn dealer when they introduced the World and World Sport. At the time I was more focused on the fact that these were made in Taiwan rather than Japan. For low end bikes, these are pretty good at what they were meant to do.

The people that buy from me don't do too bad either. The bikes are fully serviced and checked out.

I only sell a couple of bikes a year and in 2020, I sold none because Covid was so rampant in New York.
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Old 02-15-21, 04:11 PM
  #47  
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Buy low, sell high.
I used to flip bikes with some regularity but the last few years just a couple. I have given away more bikes during this period than I have sold. All I sell now are my regular riders I have had for a number of years.
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Old 02-16-21, 03:34 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by kross57
I don't really have one. I would guess I make somewhere around $15-$20 an hour on these bikes. For such a low rate you have to enjoy it, or it's not worth it.
That won't happen around here. People flat out refuse to pay for labor and they want a lifetime warranty on everything they buy.

I was in a bike shop last week, the owner was changing two tubes on an old mountain bike for some guy who was waiting. When he got done, he tells the guy "That'll be $31 with tax and labor". ($8.50 ea. for the tubes, $12.50 labor, plus sales tax). The guy went ballistic and started saying he's not paying for the tubes AND paying for the labor to put them in.
There's a 4 foot sign on the wall right there that lists labor charges, $12.50 to change a tube or tire each, (he was cutting the guy a break as it was by only charging half the rate because the bike came from there 30 years prior). Shop labor rate is listed not by the hour but by the procedure. He's had that sign there unchanged for 20 years or so.

In the end, the guy stomped off without the bike, with two kids in tow, apparently he had no money on him. He got into a brand new diesel GMC pickup still with a temp tag on it.
I was there this morning and that bike was still sitting there in the corner. He didn't seem too confident that the guy will come back for it. He told me he cringes these days when it comes to doing any sort of repair because so many never come back for the bike. For big jobs he now requires payment up front but most flat out refuse to pay labor I've even seen some people come in there with parts they bought online in hand wanting them installed for free, then go crazy when he gives them the labor price.
I had a guy who was a pretty regular at a local shop a few years ago come to me wanting me to do a clean and relube on his 70's Raleigh Super Course. He told me the bike shop down the road sent him here. (I'm not a shop and don't advertise). I gave him a price that was no doubt double what ever the shop quoted him, and he unloads the bike out of the truck and leans against the wall in my garage. I didn't ask for anything up front figuring if he don't pay, I get a nice bike for my trouble......
I get a good look at the bike, a 1977 Super Course and its got no front brake cable, both tires are flat and dry rotted, and the rear wheel is a 1/2" out of true. I tell him my price doesn't count parts, and that he'll have to buy some cables and I'm going to charge him to fix the rear wheel, and he's going to have to buy some new tires and tubes. I ask him what kind of tires does he want, he says "What ever is cheap". My go too cheap tire is either something from Specialized or a low end Michelin. I tell him he's looking at another $75 or so. He says go ahead and fix it, but there's no hurry, he's going to be in FL for a few months. I get to the bike the next weekend, I basically do a complete tear down and rebuild, I straighten and true the back rim, adjust and tighten the front spokes as well. I mount up two new Michelin tires and tubes, clean and relube the headset, BB, and both hubs, I removed and cleaned the chain, flushed out the derailleur, and replaced the front shift cable and both brake cables. I even cleaned the rusty spots off the chrome bits and bolts here and there.
I shoot the guy an email telling him its all done. He replies and tells me he's moved to FL, and he wants me to ship the bike to him.
I tell him I don't ship bikes and he owed me for the repairs. I never heard from him again. That was in early 2017. I sold the bike last week after it sat for a year or more on CL.

Years ago, around 1999 or so, I was helping out at a local bike shop during the holiday rush while I was on vacation from my regular job, it was around closing time when a guy came in asking if his bike was done yet. No one could find or had any record of him leaving a bike for repairs. After grilling the guy about when or why he left his bike. He said he dropped it off "A while back" for new tires and tubes and a kickstand". After an hour searching, no one can find anything. He digs around and finally comes up with a claim tag from a repair order, dated 6 years prior, from a different bike shop, that was no longer in business. We were simply speechless. When the owner told him he had the wrong shop, and that the shop in question was long gone, he went nuts and demanded we give him his bike. The whole ordeal ended with the cops being called and him being removed. He continued to call the shop for a month insisting they were 'hiding' his bike.

I gave up on buying any bike with the sole intent to flip it for a profit after fixing it. People won't pay a dime more for a bike that's been all gone through and made perfect vs. any old rideable clunker. Around here used is used, it doesn't seem to matter whether it was high end, mid grade or entry level, they just want it cheap.
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Old 02-16-21, 04:39 AM
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kross57
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Originally Posted by barnfind
That won't happen around here. People flat out refuse to pay for labor and they want a lifetime warranty on everything they buy. .
Wow. I'm not sure where you are located, but that sucks.

I'm in northern NJ where most buyers are looking for a decent road bike to enjoy, vintage or not. The ones I sell are in very good condition, road ready, and should provide years of use with minimal upkeep. They don't actually pay for my labor, although its part of the price.. The bikes I sell seem to compare favorably in cost with whatever is available in new bicycles, and are in much better shape than the beaters commonly sold as used.

Luckily, the market is pretty strong locally, and I've had a fair number of people drive out the 45 minutes to an hour from NYC to get a bike. I tell everyone who buys one, if they get home and find something substantially wrong with the bike, bring it back for a refund. Nobody has yet.

I enjoy taking a bike which is essentially good but has some issues, and investing the time and effort to put it back in use. Very satisfying. My least favorite flipper candidates are bikes that are in excellent shape that I purchase low and sell high with no work in them at all. I like elevating these bikes, not merely acting as a broker.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:05 AM
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gthomson
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Originally Posted by barnfind

I gave up on buying any bike with the sole intent to flip it for a profit after fixing it. People won't pay a dime more for a bike that's been all gone through and made perfect vs. any old rideable clunker. Around here used is used, it doesn't seem to matter whether it was high end, mid grade or entry level, they just want it cheap.
I can imagine that happening at bike stores, though I've never witnessed it myself. Last spring at the peak of the bike boom, I was working on one of my old road bikes and heading to the shop a fair bit and witnessed a lot of people bringing in these old box store clunkers for repairs. I'm sure the bike stores were cringing every day as people were lined up outside, wanting to get their old beaters that they hadn't ridden in years, fixed up and probably were shocked when they got the bill.

Now on the flip side, I find when I go into a bike shop which tries to make a living from selling new bikes to people and I bring in my 1980's road bike in great shape, they don't have the same enthusiasm that I have to replace a part of fix a cable. I get this sense of, "oh boy, some old guy with his old bike" look in their faces, ha ha.
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