Did I do damage overtightening my cassette
03-25-23, 08:46 AM
#26
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You whipper snappers and your clicky clack torque wrenches. In my day we squinted at a pointer on the end of a beam against a scale and we like it!
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03-25-23, 09:04 AM
#28
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If you had some super light 190g rear hub, maybe it’s a concern.
If it’s the type of hub that pairs nicely with a Surly, I bet it’s fine.
Keeping the chain whip in place while applying a whole bunch of force might be the crux. I’ve definitely gotten some cassette shaped scabs on my hands from this.
If it’s the type of hub that pairs nicely with a Surly, I bet it’s fine.
Keeping the chain whip in place while applying a whole bunch of force might be the crux. I’ve definitely gotten some cassette shaped scabs on my hands from this.
03-25-23, 09:12 AM
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I’m experienced, and I have had cassette retainers come loose when not using a torque wrench. Use the torque wrench - there is no downside, engineers have figured it out.
I don’t use a torque wrench for most fasteners, just the critical ones. If they took the time to mark it, I use the spec. When I install a threadless headset, if I don’t torque it, it gets loose. If I use the torque wrench, I get it right the first time.
BTW, most of us are over-tightening pedals.
In this thread, I have seen various justifications for not using a torque wrench. The real reasons might be not owning one, laziness, impatience, habit or pride. None of these are good reasons.
Where OP ran into trouble was the inherent clicking of this fastener, and is quite understandable. One trick I use is this: I wrap a bare hand around the head of the torque wrench, so I can feel when the tool clicks, rather than the retaining nut clicking. And note, recommended procedures are still the best way. Your blanket statement against correct procedures was meant as a joke, but it’s not a good idea.
Also, if you’re not sure if the wrench has clicked, loosen and restart the operation.
i think the advice to just use the wheel as it is, is good advice in most situations. But if I were about to start a major tour, I’d remove and replace it now, rather than risking a failure on the road. Worst case is you’d have to replace the cassette too.
I don’t use a torque wrench for most fasteners, just the critical ones. If they took the time to mark it, I use the spec. When I install a threadless headset, if I don’t torque it, it gets loose. If I use the torque wrench, I get it right the first time.
BTW, most of us are over-tightening pedals.
In this thread, I have seen various justifications for not using a torque wrench. The real reasons might be not owning one, laziness, impatience, habit or pride. None of these are good reasons.
Where OP ran into trouble was the inherent clicking of this fastener, and is quite understandable. One trick I use is this: I wrap a bare hand around the head of the torque wrench, so I can feel when the tool clicks, rather than the retaining nut clicking. And note, recommended procedures are still the best way. Your blanket statement against correct procedures was meant as a joke, but it’s not a good idea.
Also, if you’re not sure if the wrench has clicked, loosen and restart the operation.
i think the advice to just use the wheel as it is, is good advice in most situations. But if I were about to start a major tour, I’d remove and replace it now, rather than risking a failure on the road. Worst case is you’d have to replace the cassette too.
I'm at the point now where I'm not using the Surly for long tours. I've actually recruited it into my (mostly local) gravel rides so if I did have a failure, my exposure to being stranded is fairly limited to a 'call of shame'.
Thanks for your perspective.
Last edited by dennis336; 03-25-23 at 09:16 AM.
03-25-23, 09:15 AM
#30
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I really appreciated when I signed back in this morning to see all the additional feedback. Really appreciate everyone who took the time to give me the benefit of your experience.
03-25-23, 11:11 AM
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By the way, you seem concerned that this little misadventure might leave you stranded; I don't think you need to worry. Undertorquing a cassette is worse than overtorquing, but neither is likely to cause much trouble. In your case, it'll just take a longer wrench and/or a little more force to eventually remove the cassette -- but you know that, and can handle it.
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03-25-23, 11:31 AM
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It's got the original hub so, to your point, it's looking like I'll be fine. But, I think I'm going to get a wrench with a longer handle to improve my leverage when loosening the lock ring the next time ... that may be a key reason why I'm having difficulty loosening it now.
Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 03-25-23 at 11:39 AM.
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03-25-23, 11:41 AM
#34
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03-25-23, 01:20 PM
#35
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FWIW: the link below is purportedly a compilation of Shimano's torque specifications for much of their hardware.
Shimano | Bike Torque Specifications
Not an official Shimano document, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy.
Shimano | Bike Torque Specifications
Not an official Shimano document, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy.
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03-27-23, 11:23 PM
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I'm a user of torque wrenches for small fasteners or parts than can possibly be damaged by over tightening. Yes, i've used a torque wrench a couple of times on cassettes so I kind of know what 40nm is "really tight". (I use beam type, no clicks involved). But I agree with the above. i don't believe it's a critical factor with cassettes. I use a ~9" crescent wrench or a medium size socket wrench and just tighten it really tight.
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03-28-23, 12:21 AM
#37
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Some freehub bodies are made of aluminum. Those are more likely to break as you are overtightening them. Little to no noise and the wrench suddenly turns very easy. Doh.
I run a bike shop and in the past 10 years, I think I've seen just 1 cassette retaining ring come loose on a bike in for service. They don't need to be very tight. Finger tight then maybe another 1/3 to 1/2 turn. I use a 8" crescent wrench and that is plenty of leverage. There is no real force or stress on the ring when pedaling.
A torque wrench is a good idea when working on carbon bikes or super light aluminum parts. Many carbon parts have the nm specs imprinted right on them. Like 5nm for a seat post bolt or stem bolt. Carbon parts are more likely to snap when over tightened.
When I first started working at a bike shop as a teen, I broke a few parts. Mostly the small bolts on derailleurs or brake cable bolts. After a few you learn how much is too much. Most bike parts just don't need "Very Tight" torque. The right side bb cup is about the only part that needs to be very tight. (in steel frames).
I remember when Raleigh sent the shop a torque wrench and instructions on how to use it, on what parts and the specs for various parts. All the shop employees tried it out and the torque wrench never got used again after that day. We all had a better feel for how tight those parts should be.
I run a bike shop and in the past 10 years, I think I've seen just 1 cassette retaining ring come loose on a bike in for service. They don't need to be very tight. Finger tight then maybe another 1/3 to 1/2 turn. I use a 8" crescent wrench and that is plenty of leverage. There is no real force or stress on the ring when pedaling.
A torque wrench is a good idea when working on carbon bikes or super light aluminum parts. Many carbon parts have the nm specs imprinted right on them. Like 5nm for a seat post bolt or stem bolt. Carbon parts are more likely to snap when over tightened.
When I first started working at a bike shop as a teen, I broke a few parts. Mostly the small bolts on derailleurs or brake cable bolts. After a few you learn how much is too much. Most bike parts just don't need "Very Tight" torque. The right side bb cup is about the only part that needs to be very tight. (in steel frames).
I remember when Raleigh sent the shop a torque wrench and instructions on how to use it, on what parts and the specs for various parts. All the shop employees tried it out and the torque wrench never got used again after that day. We all had a better feel for how tight those parts should be.
03-28-23, 03:56 AM
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Something I have never seen discussed is does it make any difference which cog you put the chain whip on? I've thought maybe the largest cog distributes the load better, but contrary to this having the whip closer to the lock ring keeps the forces more aligned.
scott s.
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scott s.
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03-28-23, 01:46 PM
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Something I have never seen discussed is does it make any difference which cog you put the chain whip on? I've thought maybe the largest cog distributes the load better, but contrary to this having the whip closer to the lock ring keeps the forces more aligned.
scott s.
.
scott s.
.
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03-28-23, 01:48 PM
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Something I have never seen discussed is does it make any difference which cog you put the chain whip on? I've thought maybe the largest cog distributes the load better, but contrary to this having the whip closer to the lock ring keeps the forces more aligned.
scott s.
.
scott s.
.
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03-28-23, 05:48 PM
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I agree that the cassette lock ring does not need to be tightened to precisely 40 Nm. The Tony Marchand video I linked to above (in post #32) says to finger tighten plus a 1/6 turn with a wrench. Since he obviously has stronger fingers than I do, I finger tighten plus a 1/4 turn with a wrench.
I am ditching my chain whip next week because Unior is having a sale, so I ordered a cassette wrench: Cassette Wrench - 1670/2BI-US – Unior USA. I have wanted one ever since I saw the Shimano version but it is only for 11T smallest cog. The Unior model I ordered is for 11T or 12T smallest cog.
dennis336 I bet you can readily remove your cassette with this tool and the technique described in the video.
I am ditching my chain whip next week because Unior is having a sale, so I ordered a cassette wrench: Cassette Wrench - 1670/2BI-US – Unior USA. I have wanted one ever since I saw the Shimano version but it is only for 11T smallest cog. The Unior model I ordered is for 11T or 12T smallest cog.
dennis336 I bet you can readily remove your cassette with this tool and the technique described in the video.
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03-29-23, 09:13 AM
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I am ditching my chain whip next week because Unior is having a sale, so I ordered a cassette wrench: Cassette Wrench - 1670/2BI-US – Unior USA. I have wanted one ever since I saw the Shimano version but it is only for 11T smallest cog. The Unior model I ordered is for 11T or 12T smallest cog.
dennis336 I bet you can readily remove your cassette with this tool and the technique described in the video.
dennis336 I bet you can readily remove your cassette with this tool and the technique described in the video.
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03-29-23, 01:18 PM
#43
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As a touring guy, I'd recommend removing the cassette, making sure all is fine (chances are really good) and then properly retighten it.
Reason why--good back to touring, I really like to know all the parts of my bike are working well and adjusted well, and if I were you, I'd rather know it was normally tightened if ever you or someone else has to replace a broken spoke sometime in the future. You'll have long forgotten this by then, so take care of it now.
I'm sure most of us have over tightened cassettes, but deal with it now, you'll appreciate it years down the road.
Reason why--good back to touring, I really like to know all the parts of my bike are working well and adjusted well, and if I were you, I'd rather know it was normally tightened if ever you or someone else has to replace a broken spoke sometime in the future. You'll have long forgotten this by then, so take care of it now.
I'm sure most of us have over tightened cassettes, but deal with it now, you'll appreciate it years down the road.
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03-29-23, 01:24 PM
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As a touring guy, I'd recommend removing the cassette, making sure all is fine (chances are really good) and then properly retighten it.
Reason why--good back to touring, I really like to know all the parts of my bike are working well and adjusted well, and if I were you, I'd rather know it was normally tightened if ever you or someone else has to replace a broken spoke sometime in the future. You'll have long forgotten this by then, so take care of it now.
I'm sure most of us have over tightened cassettes, but deal with it now, you'll appreciate it years down the road.
Reason why--good back to touring, I really like to know all the parts of my bike are working well and adjusted well, and if I were you, I'd rather know it was normally tightened if ever you or someone else has to replace a broken spoke sometime in the future. You'll have long forgotten this by then, so take care of it now.
I'm sure most of us have over tightened cassettes, but deal with it now, you'll appreciate it years down the road.
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