MTBaddict

I'm using some Cane Creek SCR-5 brake levers with my Spyre disc calipers on my gravel/touring bike. the setup seems to require a substantial amount of force on the levers during braking. The Cane Creek website states that "SCR-5 levers are compatible with cantilever brakes, they create enough cable pull for linear pull brakes but the SCR-5 is not compatible with V-brakes". Could this be an incompatibility issue related to short-pull vs long-pull design? I am using compressionless cable housing and have tried both resin and semi-metallic pads.

If I can improve the braking with other (non-brifter) levers, what are some recommended models I should consider?

shelbyfv

Odd, but this is from Cane Creek

Check this Tektro Tektro RL340

maddog34

i see a LOT of Spyre Calipers for sale on the internet... A LOT of them....

shelbyfv

I had a bike with Spyres and 5800 brifters, worked well IMO. Pretty sure they are considered the best of the mechanical discs.

hokiefyd 

This seems to me to be a contradiction of terms, since V-brakes are linear pull brakes; they're simply the Shimano trademarked branding for linear pull brakes. If they create enough cable pull for linear pull brakes, they should be compatible with V-brakes...and vice versa.

HillRider

Spyres use "short pull" brake levers, the same pull as cantilevers and road caliper brakes. I have them on a Surly Midnight Special using Tektro R200 road brake levers and they work fine.

csport

I had a hard time braking from the hoods using TRP Spyres with the Sora 3503 brifters. Upgraded the calipers to Juin Tech R1 and never looked back. I admit to being a heavy rider, approximately 270#.

Kontact 

Maybe it's your pads. I doubt changing levers is going to change the braking at all.

veganbikes

My favorite road brake levers are SRAM S-500s. I highly recommend those and have had several pairs.

djb

A small detail, but I've found that if your pads engage too early, so with very little lever movement, it lessens the braking force.
in other words, having your fingers bend a bit more gives more finger power and modulation. My cantis work better like this also.

Impossible in writing to describe how much, and we are talking small amounts here.

Throw in possible not great pad/rotor interaction going on, and maybe even personal perception of things, and it all makes couch opinions kinda tricky.

My long pull levers work great with my old bb7 MTB calipers, and have always heard very good things about short pull spyres.

Are you a heavy rider like the other guy?

t2p

Yes - Spyres are one of the better choices of mechanical / cable-pulled calipers

Juin Tech is another ... Rever (?) might be another (?)

new / quality set of pads might help - change to Swiss Stop pads or similar ... some have good luck with the Swiss Stop pads made for E bikes

good adjustment is required for best performance (including pad and caliper position) as noted in an above post

and of course the pads need to be bed in properly

t2p

btw - that is a *sweet* lookin bike !

ClydeClydeson

This topic comes up on the reg in various forms. Cable actuated brakes are generally very simple, but the devil is in the details.

By the laws of leverage, the same amount of energy is required to pull a cable X distance with Y force as it does to pull a cable X/2 distance with 2xY force.
In other words, 'long pull' levers move the cable further than short pull levers, but are not pulling as hard.
Short pull levers move the cable less far than long pull levers, but are pulling harder.

THe result is that if your levers and brake calipers don't match, the brakes won't function properly.

If you use short pulll levers on long pull brakes (V brakes or most disc calipers), the brakes can likely be made to stop the bike properly, but usually won't have enough movement to be set up without rubbing on the braking surface.
If you use long pull levers on short pull brakes (cantilevers, road calipers, mini-Vs) you will be able to actuate the brake but you have to pull much harder on the lever to get the same braking power you would get with the correct levers. In my opinion, this situation is less desirable than short pull levers with long pull brakes.

The range of acceptable force required to actuate brakes is actually pretty narrow, and the force required to actuate short pull brakes with long pull levers is excessive unless you have exceptionally strong hands, and even then it is not a good long term solution.

MTBaddict

Thanks all for your responses.

I was aware that there are so called long pull and short pull brakes but needed a clear definition/explanation of what was precisely meant by those terms from an engineering perspective. The best information I found was on the Park Tool website:https://www.parktool.com/en-us/blog/...and-adjustment

From the information gained from their website, I measured my levers, both on this bike and on another bike of mine which has no issues with the braking. What I found is that I had installed long pull levers when I should have installed short pull levers. I understood that short pull levers would give me much greater brake force with lower force at the brake lever, and now I know how to measure any brake lever to see for what pull range it was designed.

I am now out shopping for short pull levers. TRP has recommended their RRL's or RL340's, depending on which ergonomic design I prefer. I haven't found many other manufacturers of quality non-brifter brake levers. Other suggestions?

Another good link:

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...f-brake-levers

veganbikes

MTB Addict I quoted myself in case you missed it.

HillRider

Those Tektro levers are good ones so they should be suitable. Cane Creek used to sell drop bar, non-brifter brake levers but these were just rebranded Tektros. They are no longer shown on Cane Creek's web site so I expect the only source would be used or NOS. Dia-Compe also mades suitable levers, their BL-07 model, and a Google search will turn up some sellers. Otherwise used or NOS pre-brifter Shimano or Suntour aero levers can be fine if you can find them.

MTBaddict

Epilogue...

So I bought 3 different sets of levers. I measured the radius (see the Park Tool reference earlier) of each from the center of the pivot point to the center of the cable attachment. I also measured my existing levers, the Cane Creek SCR-5. Here are the results:

20mm Cane Creek SCR-5
20mm Tektro RL340
20mm TPR RRL
23mm SRAM S500

This data is in line with that illustrated in the Park Tool article for short-pull levers which ranged from 16mm to 21mm. So there's no point in changing my levers to any of these, especially the SRAM as it would be moving in the wrong direction. I was hoping to possibly find something closer to the 16mm radius but no go. I did not purchase the Origin8 Clasiq nor the Dia Compe GC07H. If anyone is using either of these and can measure the radius of the pull and post it, I would be most interested.

djb

The other day I rode with a friend, her first time getting her drop bar bike out. At end of ride she mentioned that she found it hard to brake well from the hoods. I tried it and was underwhelmed also.
I noticed the levers were set up to engage almost immediately, and explained about this reducing good "finger flex" to get more power to the brakes.
I adjusted them to engage not so immediately, and it made all the difference. She felt it right away also when I made her do some hard stops from a medium speed.
So do keep this in mind when setting them up.
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