Koyote

Well, shoot, I didn't know that Jeff Healey is dead. Damn.

So, given that you can't afford some things, you reach the following general conclusion:

I hope you're not wondering why some of us don't take you seriously.

And now I'll invite the scolds to come and scold me.

63rickert

Arkansas High Country Race was just won on a steel bike with rim brakes. And inner tubes. The steel was old timey 1" and !-1/8" tubes. With lugs.

Koyote

And it looks like he was wearing a wool jersey, too.

63rickert

Yes, he was. And he is twice as old as some of those he beat.

For most of us, and probably all on this forum, we just don't have enough power that "efficient power transfer" would make one bit of difference. We don't go fast enough that aero anything makes any difference.

Eric F 

So...Let me see if I understand correctly....If you could afford the latest in bicycle technology, would it stop being a scam?

Technology evolves, and systems become more complex. This tends to be the nature of technology. The automotive industry is one of many examples. With my first few cars, you could drop a wrench in the engine bay, and it would hit the ground. Today, you're buying a new wrench and hoping the lost one doesn't mess anything up, where ever it disappeared to. However, today's cars are more efficient, faster, and safer than decades past.

If you prefer the world of the simple bicycle, the C&V section welcomes you, and you will have lots of company. However, be aware that the C&V side is not always cheap. People spend a lot of money on old parts for old bicycles.

Maelochs

So .... how much you feel comfortable spending should determine what engineers develop and manufacturers produce?

What is some other folks can afford more, and want more? Why should you limit their options?

With very few exceptions, we all have limits on what we can spend. We buy what we want, tempered by what we can afford, and make the best of it.

You on the other hand, hate the world and try to convince everyone not to even design, let alone build or sell, stuff you cannot afford.

Get a better job, learn to manage money, adjust your priorities .... and please, grow up some and learn how the world actually works.

Seriously ... if you cannot afford the best medical care, no one should design, build or sell houses? When you were younger you couldn't afford a car ... so nobody should have been allowed to design, build, or sell cars .... and certainly, no one should ever make better cars.

You cannot see any flaws in your logic here ... you cannot see any better logic than blaming all your woes on some Bicycle Conspiracy?

Eric F 

Wool is faster than lycra. Here's proof...


The winner was wearing a wool jersey, and no one wearing a lycra jersey could beat him. Therefore, wool is faster than lycra.

Koyote

Bingo. On the bikes I race(d), light weight has never been a huge priority. I've just never seen the point in spending a lot of money on (sometimes) more delicate parts in order to move up from 57th place to 53rd place. And a lot of the weight weenie-ism seems to come from riders, like the OP, who don't even race. wtf?

When I was a kid, my family had typical cars of the 1960s and '70s...We even had a '65 Mustang kicking around the family for some years. Comparing any of those vehicles to my 2022 Honda is like comparing a rotary phone to a new iPhone 14.

63rickert

It is true that some spend serious money on bikes they just gotta have. Then there are vintage bikes that we get for free. And some that we get for very little. New bikes for free doesn't happen often. Happens to most of us that want old bikes.

Eric F 

I have always tended to lean toward the weight-weenie side, but I know damn well that my fitness/fatness are more influential on my performance. My race bikes (early -2000's) tended to be light-ish for the era (18-19 lbs), but not featherweight. Going uphill, a 1-2 lb lighter bike wasn't going to let me compete with 130 lb mountain goats. However, I did beat Justin Williams in a sprint to win a State Crit Champ title* because the sprint game was where my skills and body type were strongest.

*True story. Cat 3 State Crit Champ Race. Williams was 15 years old and I was 35. He had beaten me earlier in the year, and this was sweet revenge for an old guy at the end of his race days.

How did you do a Google search on a rotary phone?

Polaris OBark

But it had electronic shifting.

Eric F 

That's why I included the "not always" in my comment.

Atlas Shrugged

Look at the OP's previous posts surrounding a neverending attempt to save money and the chaos that has ensued. Chances are there is a lot of trolling going on, but the op's threads seem to be fairly effective at eliciting responses. My issue with this one is the lack of creativity and the repetitive nature of it; I don't understand the satisfaction someone gets from being an anonymous troll however in this case, just rehashing a well-worn trope is sad.

Chuck Naill

That is good to know. It seems like there are many threads that say otherwise.

livedarklions

And Grant Peterson's writing career.

Chuck Naill

Not familiar, but no problem.

70sSanO

It’s not easy, but you can do it. You need to use the rotary dial like a keypad and turn it the number of times to get to the right letter.

When you get your search you need to listen to the information. It sometimes helps to use a tape recorder, period correct, and vocally repeat what you hear into the tape recorder microphone.

Pictures are especially difficult since you need to follow the instructions in order to sketch out the image.

But some people think the smartphone industry is a scam because you need to have apps.

John

big john

Grant Peterson of Rivendell Bicycles. A bit of a retro-grouch. Against racing type bikes for the masses. Some people like him, some find him annoying.

To me, racing in motorsports and even bicycling has helped technology progress. If companies didn't spend R&D money we wouldn't have the things we have available today. Road bikes have improved in just about every way, mountain bikes even more than road bikes. E-class racing cars has helped development of batteries which are used in cars and bikes.
If you don't want to spend a lot on a bike you can still benefit from advances in technology. Or you can just ride old bikes.

BlazingPedals

Yeahbutt... He must have been crazy-strong; he beat a 150HP truck.

Polaris OBark

I think Jan is rather fit.

big john

Reminds me of being with my friend at his body shop when a man came in and said his car had been crashed and he needed a body shop to confirm it was a total for his insurance. Friend told him to have it towed in and he would write up an estimate or whatever the guy needed. Guy says he doesn't want to tow it in so my friend says if he takes some good pictures that would work. Guy says he doesn't have a camera and wants to know if he could just draw a picture of the wreck.

We had some laughs after the guy left.

amazinmets73

It's just unnecessary and overkill. Furthermore, when companies stop offering the more economical option (rim brakes for example) across their model lines, they force the consumers hand into paying more.

I also suspect there's significant price gouging at play...

...For example, in 1999 Treks top-of-the-line carbon fiber road offering sported an MSRP of $3,600. Adjusted for inflation, that equates to $6,400. Treks highest MSRP road bike in 2022 is $12,500 (Specialized wants over $14,000.)

So, yes. Nearly double the price for a top tier road bike with the same frame material. And of course there's a trickle down effect. A mid-upper tier road bike in 2000 costs the same as an entry-level bike in 2022 after adjusting for inflation.

I for one am very curious as to the profit margins companies currently earn off their offerings in comparison to decades past. That is what I'm referring to when I say the modern bike industry is a scam, not frame material.

big john

It's been shown, at least several places, that consumer demand has driven the dominance of disc brakes. If customers demanded rim brakes, they would sell rim brakes.

amazinmets73

Who's responsible for the marketing campaigns to make consumers think they need rim brakes?

rsbob 

To be really good, it should be a double blind experiment, but that could get dangerous.