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Old 08-13-22, 12:19 PM
  #1  
imobilinpedalus
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Cs 123456789 rd

Hello folks,

Trying to get my bearings right and so i want to understand a little bit more about cassette sizes (T) What i have in mind right now is road bikes. What is a typical set up here? While i struggle to understand the difference between having 11 or 12 teeth for the smallest cog on the cassette, i notice that this factor on the largest cog varies considerably. Before i move on, are there set ups that require strictly 12T and others 11T on the smallest cog or is this not the case (in other words can any set up use either 11T or 12T regardless of the rest of the setup?)

(FYI, my cassettes are 10 speed just in case this means anything) Sorry but i have to draw the line somewhere not jump on tomorrows trending cassette speed (#11 or #12 or #13 or whatever, ugh)

So, let me assume the most used/most popular set up on a road bike cassette is 11-28 and then you tell me if this is in the ballpark or spot on or whatever. And before i forget, is there a difference here for men and women or are these criterias the same? If a road bike guy sees a bike that has a cassette with a 11-25T setup, will he think "great just what i need" or think this is the wrong cassette for my use and too few teeth on the biggest cog and will have to replace it? (I want you to imagine there are some moderate inclines not just flat earth to trek across for this rider) and YES, i do understand that more T on the biggest cog means an easier climb but "what is the sweetspot" i guess is what i am asking. Now i don`t want to complicate things and add the crankset to this equation so let`s just keep to the cassette for now. Let`s just say that the crankset has two rings. Will this rider consider the weight of the bicycle when considering what size cassette to apply? I mean is it much harder to trek uphill with a heavier bike? Or to put it filpside, is it much easier to trek uphill with a very light bicycle? And thus will this factor alone yield a different cassette? Another thing i am curious about is rear derailleurs. I understand there are three sizes (well roughly anyway) so i am a little confused what is the maximum "reach" for a small RD (i.e. max 26T?) and at what number do i have to look into a medium RD if the cassette have too many teeth on the biggest cog. Will i need a medium RD if i have a 11-28 cassette or long before that? (11-26,11-25,11-23 etc.)

I think i`ve rambled a lot already, hopefully i am making myself clear. I am trying to figure out exactly what 10 speed cassette to buy for a roadbike i am working on while keeping to the general consensus of cassette sizes. I am sure getting a 11-23 cassette would be only for flat terrain and getting a 11-32 cassette would be for mountaneous terrain, lol. But where is the sweetspot folks?

I think that`s it.
Thanks,

Last edited by imobilinpedalus; 08-13-22 at 12:23 PM.
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Old 08-13-22, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
What is a typical set up here?
No such thing as typical. It varies by rider and terrain.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
in other words can any set up use either 11T or 12T regardless of the rest of the setup?
Yes.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
So, let me assume the most used/most popular set up on a road bike cassette is 11-28 and then you tell me if this is in the ballpark or spot on or whatever.
It all depends on your fitness, the terrain, and the size of the chainrings.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
Now i don`t want to complicate things and add the crankset to this equation
The cassette range is meaningless without knowing the chainring teeth.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
And before i forget, is there a difference here for men and women or are these criterias the same?
No difference based on genitalia alone.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
If a road bike guy sees a bike that has a cassette with a 11-25T setup, will he think "great just what i need" or think this is the wrong cassette for my use and too few teeth on the biggest cog and will have to replace it?
It all depends on his fitness and the terrain, and the size of the chainrings.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
"what is the sweetspot" i guess is what i am asking.
It all depends on fitness and terrain.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
Will this rider consider the weight of the bicycle when considering what size cassette to apply?
Sure, maybe, but most bikes are within such a fairly narrow range of weight that it isn't really a factor.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
I mean is it much harder to trek uphill with a heavier bike?
Yes, it's harder. How much harder depends on rider fitness and the steepness of the terrain.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
Or to put it filpside, is it much easier to trek uphill with a very light bicycle? And thus will this factor alone yield a different cassette?
Yes, it's easier, and it might influence the cassette range, but not by much.

Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
I am trying to figure out exactly what 10 speed cassette to buy for a roadbike i am working on while keeping to the general consensus of cassette sizes. I am sure getting a 11-23 cassette would be only for flat terrain and getting a 11-32 cassette would be for mountaneous terrain, lol. But where is the sweetspot folks?
The sweet spot is an individual choice, and depends on (again) the rider's fitness, the steepness of the terrain, and and the size of the chainrings. You might have to experiment a bit to get it dialed. I'd go to the local shop or ask local riders what gears they're using in the area you'll be riding.

Last edited by Rolla; 08-13-22 at 12:50 PM.
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Old 08-13-22, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
I am sure getting a 11-23 cassette would be only for flat terrain and getting a 11-32 cassette would be for mountaneous terrain, lol. But where is the sweetspot folks?

I think that`s it.
Thanks,
Lot of rambling there just for that question that really seems to sum up all the others.

The sweet spot really depends on your fitness level, how well you understand how to use gears to your advantage, and what type of hills you climb. Short climbs or long extended periods of climbing. Just going out for a 20 minute ride you might not need a really low gear ratio that you might need for a climb after 3 hours of riding.

The sweet spot is going to have to be something you find out for yourself. But a good place to start might be to see what others doing the type and length of riding you wish to do are using.
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Old 08-13-22, 01:18 PM
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Ok, let`s say the rider is an amateur at best but is an active - non competitive - 5 day a week roadbike cyclist and wants a cassette that covers as much "range" as possible.
The cassette that will give the best range both ways...so yes indeed there is a sweetspot for this...so which is it? I want a proper answer.
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Old 08-13-22, 01:53 PM
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The answer is - depends.

There is no definitive answer.
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Old 08-13-22, 02:02 PM
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I ride a 52/36 front and a 11-30 rear 11 speed cassette in constantly rolling hills. Am considering getting a 53/39. When I go to Colorado which has longer distances of continuous of climbing I've been changing to a 50/34 front. But not certain I really need that.

And I am by no means a powerful rider. My FTP is much lower than what others boast here.

Also I'm not certain I can give you a proper answer tailored to you as I know nothing about how well you currently do on a bicycle.

Maybe just consider that cassettes are generally inexpensive and you can try out several to find what works for you better. You don't have to get top tier stuff for your experiments. Get the top tier when you know what range of gearing works for you.

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Old 08-13-22, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
Ok, let`s say the rider is an amateur at best but is an active - non competitive - 5 day a week roadbike cyclist and wants a cassette that covers as much "range" as possible.
The cassette that will give the best range both ways...so yes indeed there is a sweetspot for this...so which is it? I want a proper answer.
Aren't you a little demanding? You're not going to get much help starting off with that attitude. "It depends" is very much the correct answer. If you want the easiest answer then a 10-52 cassette will cover the most range, but only works on SRAM 12 speed mtb derailleurs.
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Old 08-13-22, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
I want a proper answer.
You don't even know how to ask the question...And you demand a "proper answer"?
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Old 08-13-22, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
I want a proper answer.
Isn't that cute? Look, we can offer numbers all day long, but no one knows the gearing "sweet spot" for a random stranger riding in some unknown locale at an undetermined pace for an unstated distance over an unknown elevation profile, with chainrings of an undisclosed size. As suggested twice here already, ask someone who rides there what they're using.
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Old 08-13-22, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
Ok, let`s say the rider is an amateur at best but is an active - non competitive - 5 day a week roadbike cyclist and wants a cassette that covers as much "range" as possible.
The cassette that will give the best range both ways...so yes indeed there is a sweetspot for this...so which is it? I want a proper answer.
50/34 front and 32/11 rear is the most common gearing sold in late model road bikes for good reason. They seem to work well for both beginners and competitive cyclists alike

Though I find the top end a bit overkill so for me, I'd probably go with 42/28 front and same 32/11 rear (but because my routes involve plenty of climbing). That will make it significantly easier to climb.
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Old 08-13-22, 07:52 PM
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Gents,
I noticed the OP is in Norway, the comment may have changed in translation.

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Old 08-13-22, 08:18 PM
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Hell, the majority of people in Norway probably speak better English than most people here in the States.
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Old 08-13-22, 08:19 PM
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imobilinpedalus ,
Let us come at your question from a different direction.

Different people like to operate a different RPM's. My buddy like the mid 60's RPM, I like 85-95 RPM.
Different people like (or are able) to travel at different speeds.
Different people like to operate on different types of terrain.
Different Derailleurs will only permit certain gear to be used. Often limiting not only the size of the largest cog on the rear, but limiting the difference in size between the largest and smallest cogs.
Meaning that even if you can calculate a gear you wish to use, there are a whole set of manufacturers rules regarding IF you can even use the size you wish with the bike you have.

So the question you have asked, has too many variables for us to give you an accurate answer.

Most people come at your question differently.

My example from some time ago.

I've have a Cervelo R3 currently fitted with Crankset FC-R8000 50/34 chainrings (front) and CS-R8000 11-30 cassette (Rear).
The derailleurs are (front) FD-R8000-F & (rear) RD-R8000-GS

I climb a lot of hills and require easier gearing, what can be done?

ANSWER: Change the cassette for a CS-HG800-11 11-34
Don't forget it will require a longer chain to be sized and installed, plus full derailleur adjustment including "B" screw.


I've taken all of the human element out of the question, I have detailed the existing equipment and the issue I am having with it.

I wish you all the best and hope you decide to alter your question to provide more details.

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Old 08-13-22, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Hell, the majority of people in Norway probably speak better English than most people here in the States.
I'm English & living close to SF for thirty years.
I exempt myself from your generalization.

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Old 08-13-22, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Barry2
I'm English & living close to SF for thirty years.
I exempt myself from your generalization.

Barry
And you no doubt paid attention in school!
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Old 08-14-22, 05:02 AM
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The bike in question i am building is NOT for me. I want to complete this bike and make it as attractive as possible, targeting the majority of the riders out there resulting in the highest possibility of a sale, but at the same time keeping to a 10 speed set up. And yes i am buying a top end cassette which is why i don`t want to burn myself buying the wrong cassette. There will always be a sweetspot for something. I am not asking for half the kingdom now am i. What cassette would appeal to the highest amount of road bikers is my question. And i didn`t see anything on RD`s yet. Is there a set reach limit for short RD`s, medium RD`s, long RD`s or is this a well kept state secret not to be shared publicly? For whatever reason, the crankset on this particular bike is 50/34 but should absolutely not be seen in relation to the matter of my cassette size inquiry.
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Old 08-14-22, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench
Aren't you a little demanding?
Originally Posted by Koyote
You don't even know how to ask the question...And you demand a "proper answer"?
The two of you are being a little demanding, yourselves. Lighten up. Be patient.
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Old 08-14-22, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by imobilinpedalus
The bike in question i am building is NOT for me. I want to complete this bike and make it as attractive as possible, targeting the majority of the riders out there resulting in the highest possibility of a sale, but at the same time keeping to a 10 speed set up. And yes i am buying a top end cassette which is why i don`t want to burn myself buying the wrong cassette. There will always be a sweetspot for something. I am not asking for half the kingdom now am i. What cassette would appeal to the highest amount of road bikers is my question. And i didn`t see anything on RD`s yet. Is there a set reach limit for short RD`s, medium RD`s, long RD`s or is this a well kept state secret not to be shared publicly? For whatever reason, the crankset on this particular bike is 50/34 but should absolutely not be seen in relation to the matter of my cassette size inquiry.
Go look at what similar high-end bikes are installing and copy that.

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Old 08-14-22, 11:57 AM
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Is this a one-off offering or is this a business model?

If it is a one-off, run an 11-28 with a 52/36 or 50/34 and a GS RD and call it a day. It is really about the chainrings and the RD (max/capacity) than the cassette. People swap out cassettes and need a RD that will accommodate the swap. The wider the non-specific buyer pool, the more flexibility you need to offer.

If it is a business model, you need to define your market for your product first. If you can’t identify who will buy your bikes, no one, especially on an internet forum, can tell you how to set them up.

Also the more local the sale, the more local knowledge is needed.

John

Edit added: 10 speed cassettes are old technology. That in itself will cut your market drastically.

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Old 08-14-22, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO



Edit added: 10 speed cassettes are old technology. That in itself will cut your market drastically.
+1. Campagnolo moved from 10 speed to 11 speed for its top end groups about 15 years ago. Shimano's current 10 speed offering, Tiagra sits well down in its component hierarchy. I don't even know if SRAM has any 10 speed road components
10 speed isn't going to be attractive
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Old 08-14-22, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 70sSanO
If it is a business model, you need to define your market for your product first. If you can’t identify who will buy your bikes, no one, especially on an internet forum, can tell you how to set them up.
I pretty much agree with you. Just to write what I've been already saying in slightly different words and bouncing them off your thoughts...

Definitely need to identify what customers will be buying your bike or bikes. Not everyone rides a bike for the same reasons or with the same desire for effort. Some like a leisurely ride through the hills and mountains, others will want to be thoroughly exhausted when the crest the top or finish their ride. They'll have different gearing needs. The former a lower low ratio and probably wider range. The latter a tighter range and less need for a really low ratio. So identify your customer if your bike is not coming in different configurations of the same basic frame.
Also the more local the sale, the more local knowledge is needed.
Which is why I think that what people are currently using in that area successfully might be what needs to be offered on bikes sold in that area. Ask your local cyclist. Are there not cycling clubs?
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