mr_bill

If you can't understand this then you don't understand English.

-mr. bill

CB HI

Might be worth noting the 4.5 year difference between the quote and your link. Some things do change during a 4.5 year period.

alcjphil

Bixi was never intended to be a bike rental system. It was conceived as a system that would allow people to use a bike for short periods of time to get from place to place. Unfortunately, many people very often tourists especially in the early couple of years tried to use the bike the way a rental bike would be used, taken out for several hours at a time. Bike share bikes are used to get from one place to another, and then placed back in their docks so others can use them. Then if that person needs a bike again to go somewhere else, they take another bike from a docking station to go to their next destination, and put the bike back so that someone else can use it. Bike sharing, not bike rental

mr_bill

And some things don't. The website was easy to understand back then too. So were the docks.


But it is useful to note that someone posted an over four year old anecdote.

-mr. bill

McBTC

...and, that was the problem-- in Seattle. When you rent a bike you usually are expected to return it where you got it. In Seattle, all of the "share" bikes ended up at the bottom of the hill-- no one wanted to ride uphill.

CB HI

Prices changed, operations changed, so clearly things did change and you should have posted what was up 4.5 years ago to respond to the quote.

CB HI

What are you responding to, clearly not my post you quoted.

kickstart

I remember seeing somewhere that they were hiring drivers to shuttle bikes by truck to the uphill stations.

mr_bill

Clearly bikeshare is NOT for commuting to work, because, er....



-mr. bill

mr_bill

Clearly people who ride the Métro would never use bikeshare, because, "research."



-mr. bill

mr_bill

Thoughtful.

-mr. bill

Mr. 66

Seattle pronto was rolled out, to the public, as a way for people who can not afford to buy a bike, the less fortunate. The wonderful city planners did not seem to realize that bikes are everywhere in Seattle proper. People, hipsters, around here just give the bikes that are out of fashion, or unused, away Goodwill, Salvation Army, a lot of people just leave them out with free signs, a lot of folk put them to the recycling pick-up these go to Bikeworks.

The city planners for a while we're thinking of replacing pronto with ebikes another ill conceived plan. They finally came to a little bit of reality.

66

MixedRider

Pronto was a poorly managed and poorly planned system. Instead of focusing on where people ride, the planners seemed to focus on what they believed to be where people would want to go. However, to get to a bike share station, you needed to either drive or get on a bus. Therefore, why use bike share.
There were times many of my friends and family members would be downtown and would have gladly used a Pronto bike share to get home, however, there was never a station anywhere near their homes.

base2 

On the list of ways Seattle bungled the bike share, aside from 45 pound bikes and 3 speeds only suitable for downhill, the accounting period included 2 winters and a summer. In addition to 2/3 of the time periods being the lowest use, one is the rainiest we've had in forever. The accounting periods makes it look like a recipe for failure no matter how the plan was executed.

It's a great idea, and I really wanted it to work...until I saw this on the rates on the kiosk. Forget it. I'd rather walk than get ripped off laboring over garbage. At $77/day You'd be better off buying a $100 Americana Cruiser from Performance ike and leaving to a homeless person when you leave town.

ctrl-c/ctrl-v:
Helmet Rentals
$2.00 for 24-Hour or 3-Day Pass Holders
$30 Replacement Fee after 24 hours

Usage Fees
0 – 30 minutes of each trip INCLUDED - no charge
30 – 60 Minutes $2.00
60 – 90 Minutes $7.00
Each additional 30 minutes +$5.00
Any rides over 8 hrs and under 24 hours will incur a $77 charge.

Any rides over 24 hrs will flag the bike as stolen or missing which may result in a $1,200 charge. Usage fees apply to both casual and annual members.

mr_bill

You've never ridden a Pronto bike, have you? They are in fact (emphasis added):

About your prices:

I spent $16.00 for a three day pass, and splurged for another $2.50 for the key fob.

As far as the suggestion that abandoning a crappy bike in Seattle is in any way helping a homeless person.... SMH.

-mr. bill

base2 

@ mr_bill
Perhaps this is where they failed. I took one look at the prices, reasoned that it takes greater than 1/2 hour to find a coffee shop, order, enjoy my coffee and find a station to return the bike to. The next increment is $7. $7 to get a $7 venti soy triple shot latte, just seems like throwing stupid money at an already stupid luxury.

Failing that, it breaks down to $10/hr, but to avoid $77 a day OR to avoid wearing a rewashed/used helmet takes planning. That kind of planning, and a commitment buy a an unlimited multiday pass at 8 or 9 times the impulse purchase rate precludes a bike share.

Then theres the bike itself. It doesn't scream value. They look a lot more on par with the 45 year old Worksman's that trondle along flat factory floors than a fun cruise down the boulevard. Durable and institition heavy. Pastel paint sweetens the deal, but doesn't undo people preconcieved notions of how a government would build a bicycle.

You're right, I've never ridden a Pronto. I tried, I really wanted it to work, I got as far as the kiosk with a card in my hand at the station outside the REI (when I was picking up my STP packet), but as the most charitable of eyes, I just couldn't see the value.

Maybe advertising wide range and many gears and how many stations with in walking distance of x-destination or directions and distance to tourist attractions (with stations) could've helped. Maybe a year to year accounting period to even out the data could've helped. Maybe advertising in tourist brochures at Sea-Tac Link Station and hotel concirerge could've helped. Maybe getting the hotel/tourist industry operators on board could've helped. Maybe targeted online advertising on the usual travel sites could've helped. Maybe Kubly and the whole conflict of interest/ethics violation thing from the get go had an effect.

For whatever reason, a positive presence in the public Consciousness just wasn't there. The Seattle city council, spent millions on a thing from shady dealings of one of it's members, poured money into it and expected it to take off by word of mouth. I apreciate the city council here on many things, but on this issue, they bungled it. Sad.

mr_bill

You have *extreme* range anxiety.

Anyhow, of all the places in the world to worry about finding a coffee shop - SEATTLE?

You check out a bike from the dock. You ride to the next dock and check in the bike. You could have gone east or west on Denny Way. Walk less than a block to Starbucks. Relax. Enjoy. Then walk back to the dock, check out a bike, and return to REI, where you check in the bike.

Or maybe you decide to ride all the way down to Downtown, check in at Pine & 2nd. Walk all around. You can go to *several* Starbucks within a block or two here.

Download the spotcycle and starbucks apps.

Or maybe you hate Starbucks? Marion & 1st, walk to Good Coffee.

Anyhow, Pronto is running a close-out special. $10.00 special membership good through 3/31.

Then it is going, going, gone.



-mr. bill

MixedRider

mr. bill.
I suggest you move to Seattle, and utilize the bike share then report back.


I am all for a Bike Share, but the Seattle system was not practical for me, my family, my friends, and any out of town visitors I know. The nearest station to my house is over 3 miles away (yes, I live in Seattle proper). Therefore, I either need to walk, take a bus, or drive to get to the nearest bike share station. There is not one near my house, there is not one near my work, and there is not one near any of my friend's or family's houses.


And as for your coffee argument, you are correct, there are coffee shops everywhere. Many of which do not require paying for use of a bike to get to when walking <2 blocks would suffice in most parts of town. (there is a coffee shop <2 blocks from my house, but no bike share for miles )


Strange enough, there is a car2go station closer to my house... Car2go is $15/hr. Pronto is $7/hour + $5.00 bus fare to get to the bike dock and back to my house.


So given the options out there, the bus system or car2go are more attractive than the Seattle bike share, especially for residents.

mr_bill

I've now lived in Seattle for over a month, over two months if you add in the time across Lake Washington.

I've used Pronto and reported back.

Pronto is *not* $7/hour.
This is not rocket science.
The first half-hour the fee is $0.00.
The next half-hour the fee is $2.00.
The next half-hour the fee is an additional $7.00, for a total of $9.00.
The next-half-hour, and every half-hour after that the fee is an additional $5.00.

BTW, the nearest Hubway to where I live most of the year is 2.5 miles. And speaking of Hubway, the Boston Hubway Stations are being reopened after their winter closure. Six are open as of now, well ahead of schedule because of the hoax. @I-Like-To-Bike, thought you'd like to know.

-mr. bill

base2 

@mr_bill
Range anxiety, my foot!
Seriously, you're going to tell me my motivations as a prospective customer on the street with a credit card in hand? I told you about my experience and and my motivations in that transaction and the reasoning behind my buying decisions pretty plainly. I just didn't see the value, so I kept my money in my pocket. There's no nefarious prejudiced plot of dooming malice here.

As far as range anxiety? Seattle to Portland in 15&1/2 hours. You?

The system just didn't work. Market forces made that plain. Care to offer your own speculation why that is so? I've offered plenty of my own.

When I want to go downtown, I take 1 of 5 that I own, usually a low value one if I am going to stop ANYWHERE. If ever I find myself there when I haven't arrived by bus or car first, then theres never a station near where I want to go. Usually Ballard to enjoy our microbrew culture.

If I could get a bike at a local park and ride and ride it from Lynnwood/Mountlake Terrace/Shoreline/Aurora Village or Ash Way Park & Rides to downtown and effect a multi-modal commute I would. But I never get that opportunity because I have to get to town first.

You come at me like I'm some out of towner or something. Maybe I should screenshot last years Strava heatmap for you.

FBinNY 

All this debate here about why Seattle's bike share system failed is somewhat pointless. It failed and that simple fact trumps everything else.

If there were solvable issues which may have prevented failure, then the time to discuss them is passed, as far as this program is concerned.

The bike share concept is still relatively new and in a competitive environment with the other options, and like anything else, some will succeed and some will fail.

However, like with autopsies of hospital deaths, there is value in trying to understand the possible causes of death, so that that information can be used by operators and planners to avoid repeating those same errors. I'm convinced that bike share can be a viable addition to the urban transportation mix in many cities, but I'm equally convinced that it's not going to succeed every place. Even if all the operational issues are addressed, there are specific local ones, including; terrain, weather, travel patterns, sprawl, culture, and the quality and cost of existing alternatives that will prevent bike share from reaching critical mass in many places.

mr_bill

Sigh.

"Range anxiety"
1) The fear that you will deplete the batteries of your electric car before you reach a plug.
2) The fear that you will not find a bike dock in the time alloted, and incure BIGLY penalties.

It hurts bikeshare systems around the world.

Seattle WA to Portland ME, impressive.

-mr. bill

base2 

Portland YOU, pbbtht!
Portland, Oregon. It's the local double century. Some of us even ride from the burbs to the starting line, (221 miles was my trip last year) A few SUPER hardcore also ride back in one day. (STPTS is the Strava group for that)
https://www.cascade.org/rides-major-...laska-airlines
It's sort of a Northwesterner right-of-passage.
Since you've lived in Seattle all of about a month or 2, there is still time to sign up for discounted tickets. It sells out every year, and the support is wonderful. Better yet become a member of Cascade and actively advocate for better bike infrastructure like the rest of us. There are free group rides almost every day of the year for all ages and abilities from 10-35 miles daily. There are 13 major rides (most with variable length options of 25-65 miles) starting with the Chilly Hilly last weekend including 3 or 4 120-200 mile rides with 7000 feet elevation gain. They have everything from learning how to bike up to being a ride leader.

I'm done with the bike share autopsy. After 7 pages on the forum, you obviously care a great deal. They are the org for you.

mr_bill

NPR story on bikeshare

NACTO site

From the press release:
But never mind that. The "experts" here who have never ridden a bikeshare bike know better. Because Portland?

-mr. bill

mr_bill

In Beijing, Two Wheels Are Only a Smartphone Away

-mr. bill