Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

This Cannondale Criterium Series Is Killing Me

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

This Cannondale Criterium Series Is Killing Me

Old 06-08-14, 05:31 PM
  #51  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Completed a 60mi ride today. Climbing the ladder.

The Crit series is doing well on longer rides.
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-08-14, 07:46 PM
  #52  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".

Brad
But it smokes on the flats.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 04:39 AM
  #53  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
But it smokes on the flats.
Only the engine holds it back.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 06:28 AM
  #54  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 1,016 Times in 398 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
The criterium bikes work well as distance bikes and mine has been on several longer rides. I tightened up the drivetrain ratios after I built a dedicated distance bike so consequently the crit bike became less "hill friendly".
At the risk of being rude I gotta ask. I'm quite intrigued at all your praise for the criterium bikes and their capabilities but these also sound just like my Cannondale: Model year 2000 R600 9spd triple, Slice CF fork, modern Easton ergo bars and '95 Vetta Tri-shock 'serving spoon' saddle.



I've really enjoyed riding thru two sets of tires and into the current Vittoria's. Short rides, my usual 30 mile scoot for aerobic exercise, bit of gravel grinding and a couple of metric centuries. It handles great, climbs like a squirrel and shifts great with the well tuned 105 kit. Some say these frames are a harsh ride but mine is a very close second to my 1976 Raleigh Professional DL-180 for ride quality. It behaves just like you say your late 80s and 90s frames are behaving. Great into to road bikes which has lead me to my three steel 70s and 80s machines (and the Gitane frame awaiting a plan)

Is this frame like the criterium frames you folks have such high praise for? What differences? Is model year 2000 outside the C&V envelope? This fall it will be 25 years old. If'n it was a car or motorcycle it would be considered vintage and get vintage plates.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
IMG_0706.jpg (110.2 KB, 906 views)
Prowler is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 06:42 AM
  #55  
shelbyfv
Expired Member
 
shelbyfv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: TN
Posts: 11,460
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3638 Post(s)
Liked 5,316 Times in 2,701 Posts
Check your math, Prowler. Pretty cool bike though, like the fade paint!
shelbyfv is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 08:25 AM
  #56  
WNG
Spin Forest! Spin!
 
WNG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Arrid Zone-a
Posts: 5,964

Bikes: I used to have many. And I Will again.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 10 Posts
@Chuckk

I managed to retrieve my blue '94(?) R500 Series 3.0 frameset, RX100/Mavic wheels from that bike last week. It came with the aluminum fork, and looks like jyl's Cannondale.
With all this talk on these Cannondales, I'm now stoked to build this one back up somehow and see how it compares to previous aluminum, and my steel.
And see if that aluminum fork is harsh or not. I did have a NOS GT Aero Edge factory CF threaded fork I had planned as an 'upgrade', but that's now history.
My daily ride was a modern Trek 1000 with an aluminum fork, but detected no harsh buzzy ride.
WNG is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 09:25 AM
  #57  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Prowler, There really isn't much difference between the crit frame and the road race frame until one needs to rail a tight turn at speed. The crit bike will simply show it's tail to a non crit geometry bike. There is a penalty for this however as IME there is almost no warning when limits have been exceeded and the bike then low sides. In addition to the steeper head tube angle the crit frame also had a slightly larger diameter down tube than the road race frame to make it stiffer. When integrated shifters became available the need to turn sharply became less important and a bike with road race geometry was quite worthy for crit racing. Probably the decline of parking lot crit races also played a part in the decline of crit geometry from the different manufacturers.

Your R600T is very similar to my '99 R1000T. With their level top tubes and 1" threaded headsets I suppose that they can be considered modern classics?

Brad

Attached Images
File Type: jpg
072013 aeroa.jpg (100.9 KB, 895 views)
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 09:28 AM
  #58  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckk
What makes a Crit?
I'd say the steep head angle 73-74 degrees, short wheelbase ~38", and high crank height ~27mm.
Which matched most of the tight course U.S. racing back then.

I've forgotten the exact dates, but it seems like in '89 ALL of the R frames were like that, and the next year or two half the models were, and after that only one model (which actually had the Criterium model name).
Fun to check out the specs in the catalogs.

I think that maybe the rough riding rep goes to the ones that had the aluminum forks rather than the original Tange steel.


actually, my '89 is 25 years old
My crit has an alu fork and I dont find the ride any more harsh than the 85 Trek 460 road racer with True Temper1 frame. I think internet parrots have perpetrated the myth that if it says Alu it will be harsh. My criterium series is only harsh if riding on broken, fragmented asphalt and chip seal. I have asphalt in decent shape here in my area so that isnt a problem.

I enjoy that snappy handling with super quick responsive acceleration. The light wheels/tires add to this feel. And fit....the frame is a perfect fit to my body type and riding style.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 09:31 AM
  #59  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
Prowler, There really isn't much difference between the crit frame and the road race frame until one needs to rail a tight turn at speed. The crit bike will simply show it's tail to a non crit geometry bike. There is a penalty for this however as IME there is almost no warning when limits have been exceeded and the bike then low sides. In addition to the steeper head tube angle the crit frame also had a slightly larger diameter down tube than the road race frame to make it stiffer. When integrated shifters became available the need to turn sharply became less important and a bike with road race geometry was quite worthy for crit racing. Probably the decline of parking lot crit races also played a part in the decline of crit geometry from the different manufacturers.

Your R600T is very similar to my '99 R1000T. With their level top tubes and 1" threaded headsets I suppose that they can be considered modern classics?

Brad

Didnt the pre-89 Criterium Series also have a slightly higher BB?
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 09:38 AM
  #60  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Chuckk, I've had Cannondales with steel, aluminum and carbon fiber forks, I couldn't detect any difference worth remembering. Ride quality always depended on tires and tire pressure. My Fortezzas were uncomfortable at the required 130+ PSI while several versions of Continentals at ~100 PSI are very nice with no penalties. My son's SPX framed Olmo has some Hutchinson Equinox tires that are also very comfortable.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 09:47 AM
  #61  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by OldsCOOL
Didnt the pre-89 Criterium Series also have a slightly higher BB?
I think they have the same BB height, 10.75", but I'll do some research later on.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 10:40 AM
  #62  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 1,016 Times in 398 Posts
Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Check your math, Prowler. Pretty cool bike though, like the fade paint!
Aaaah, how about a head slap. You like 15 years old better (and me, an engineer and all. How mortifyin....)? I suppose that answers that question nicely. Sorry!
Prowler is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 10:47 AM
  #63  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
OldsCOOL, They have the same BB height, but now I'm not too sure about the down tube's diameter on the '88 and older SR crit bikes. Can you measure your '88?

Thanks,
Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 10:50 AM
  #64  
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Posts: 21,845

Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1173 Post(s)
Liked 924 Times in 610 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
Chuckk, I've had Cannondales with steel, aluminum and carbon fiber forks, I couldn't detect any difference worth remembering. Ride quality always depended on tires and tire pressure. My Fortezzas were uncomfortable at the required 130+ PSI while several versions of Continentals at ~100 PSI are very nice with no penalties. My son's SPX framed Olmo has some Hutchinson Equinox tires that are also very comfortable.

Brad
130 psi
why ?
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike.

FYI: https://www.bikeforums.net/forum-sugg...ad-please.html
Homebrew01 is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 01:30 PM
  #65  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Homebrew01
130 psi
why ?
At first this too was my question. The tires were rated 140 PSI max. and below ~130 PSI the tires looked and rode as if under inflated. They also were a bit under sized, more like 20 mm instead of 23 mm. At the time I weighed in the 200-205 range.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 02:18 PM
  #66  
Prowler 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Near Pottstown, PA: 30 miles NW of Philadelphia
Posts: 2,185

Bikes: 2 Trek Mtn, Cannondale R600 road, 6 vintage road bikes

Mentioned: 83 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 470 Post(s)
Liked 1,016 Times in 398 Posts
Originally Posted by Chuckk
What makes a Crit? I'd say the steep head angle 73-74 degrees, short wheelbase ~38", and high crank height ~27mm. Which matched most of the tight course U.S. racing back then.
Thanks Chuckk. I just measured my really new R600 (57cm ST c-c) and got:

HT angle = 73 deg
BB height = 27.5 cm
Wheel base = 110 cm
Trail = 6.5 cm
Chainstay = 41 cm.

Sort of what you mentioned but the wheelbase is too long. No worries for me - I prefer the longer wheelbase for the recreational riding I do. Thanks for the criteria. No one has objected.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Bye.
Prowler is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 02:34 PM
  #67  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
OldsCOOL, They have the same BB height, but now I'm not too sure about the down tube's diameter on the '88 and older SR crit bikes. Can you measure your '88?

Thanks,
Brad
Dial calipers are showing 1.8" on my '88.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 02:41 PM
  #68  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by Prowler
Thanks Chuckk. I just measured my really new R600 (57cm ST c-c) and got:

HT angle = 73 deg
BB height = 27.5 cm
Wheel base = 110 cm
Trail = 6.5 cm
Chainstay = 41 cm.

Sort of what you mentioned but the wheelbase is too long. No worries for me - I prefer the longer wheelbase for the recreational riding I do. Thanks for the criteria. No one has objected.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. Bye.
Your frame's headtube angle is only 1deg shallower than the '88 criterium (those are 74). Thanx for your input, I appreciate hearing from other Cannondale roadies.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 03:35 PM
  #69  
Chuckk
Groupetto Dragon-Ass
 
Chuckk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lostin Austin, TX
Posts: 601
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 412 Post(s)
Liked 762 Times in 363 Posts
So here we go, starting in '86.

1986 - standard Road geometry


1987, upper model frames were Crit, lower Road:


1988&9, all the SR frames were Crit geometry.



1990, pretty evenly split:
400, 600, and 800 were Crit


300, 500,900 and 2000 were Road Race


1991 almost all models came as both SR and SC (crit) 3.0's.


and finally in 1992 there was only the C600 Crit left among several SR's as the 3.0's start phase out by the 2.8's.


1994, things get REALLY crazy - everything SUPER crit!?


Then in '95 no more 3.0, but 2.8 with or without headshock, TT and compact frames. The SR frames were back to road geometry.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
89.jpg (45.7 KB, 908 views)
File Type: jpg
90c800600400.jpg (52.6 KB, 893 views)
File Type: jpg
90rr2000900500300.jpg (42.6 KB, 898 views)
File Type: jpg
91srsc.jpg (76.7 KB, 893 views)
File Type: jpg
92.jpg (67.0 KB, 900 views)
File Type: jpg
88.jpg (47.9 KB, 902 views)
File Type: jpg
87.jpg (83.5 KB, 906 views)
File Type: jpg
86.jpg (73.0 KB, 894 views)
File Type: jpg
94.jpg (29.7 KB, 909 views)

Last edited by Chuckk; 06-09-14 at 04:36 PM.
Chuckk is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 05:56 PM
  #70  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Thanx Chuckk!
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 06:04 PM
  #71  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
My '88 is quite different from the '94. Shorter wheelbase for one. Strange they had so many tweaks in so few years.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 07:59 PM
  #72  
bradtx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Pearland, Texas
Posts: 7,579

Bikes: Cannondale, Trek, Raleigh, Santana

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 308 Post(s)
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Chuckk, I'm sure the '94 info is a typo/misprint.

OldsCOOL, Thanks! The down tube on my '86/'88 is 1.74". Once it's built I'll check the head tube's angle as it maybe a RR frame, which is fine by me, I do wish I knew why it took two years for the frame to come to market as an '88 SR500. A hint is that there are three signatures on the drop out. The down tube on the '89 is 2.0", BTW.

Brad
bradtx is offline  
Old 06-09-14, 08:15 PM
  #73  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Originally Posted by bradtx
Chuckk, I'm sure the '94 info is a typo/misprint.

OldsCOOL, Thanks! The down tube on my '86/'88 is 1.74". Once it's built I'll check the head tube's angle as it maybe a RR frame, which is fine by me, I do wish I knew why it took two years for the frame to come to market as an '88 SR500. A hint is that there are three signatures on the drop out. The down tube on the '89 is 2.0", BTW.

Brad
The DTs on those '89 Crits must have been bizarre when they were unveiled back then. Not to mention the cantilevered dropouts.

Last edited by OldsCOOL; 06-09-14 at 08:20 PM.
OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-28-14, 09:26 PM
  #74  
OldsCOOL
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
OldsCOOL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: northern michigan
Posts: 13,317

Bikes: '77 Colnago Super, '76 Fuji The Finest, '88 Cannondale Criterium, '86 Trek 760, '87 Miyata 712

Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 313 Posts
Here is a face to put with the threads about the bike. This was taken on the halfway of a 70mi ride. In the background is Little Traverse Bay of Lake Michigan and just outside of Petoskey.

OldsCOOL is offline  
Old 06-29-14, 03:08 AM
  #75  
pastorbobnlnh 
Freewheel Medic
 
pastorbobnlnh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: An Island on the Coast of GA!
Posts: 12,878

Bikes: Snazzy* Schwinns, Classy Cannondales & a Super Pro Aero Lotus (* Ed.)

Mentioned: 140 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked 2,177 Times in 957 Posts


I hadn't noticed that you are running the lower spoke count of Nashbar's Vuelta wheels until now (mine are the HD version and have 36 spokes per wheel). Your version pop up a few times per year at just over $100, how do you like them? The reason I ask is I'm down 75lbs and pushing hard for a total 100 to reach 200lbs and curious if they will hold up under my new lighter "heft."

My heavy duty Vuelta wheels have been great. Due to a chain jump and deep cuts in 6 of the spokes I took the rear to my LBS recently. The mechanic (who has built several set of wheels for me) was very impressed.
__________________
Bob
Enjoying the GA coast all year long!

Thanks for visiting my website: www.freewheelspa.com





pastorbobnlnh is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.